For Pat

[Patrick_Dillon]

If pat had of been paying attention, he would have got his aces smashed and hopefully eliminated, instead of him jamming my BB with K8 off, and me not taking the jams anymore and calling with my A5 off.

I probably would have made the money. Crazy Irishman!

Heads up short stacked k high is good

[Patrick_Dillon]

On a serious note I would like some feedback on this hand. My poker is all over the shop at the moment and I am really trying to get back on track.

Ok so here is the history on this hand. Blinds 150/300 and I wake up with pocket kings. I have about 16 bb and am on the button. I raise 4x the blind as we had 2 limpers. Hit my king on the flop and I continuation bet to which the guy folds. Continuation bet is about 2/3 pot which is my average. Now my reasoning is that I try and keep my continuation bets the same regardless of whether I have hit. Is this a warped way of thinking? Would like some honest feedback here.

**side note Pat had pocket aces here and did not get back to the computer in time to call which I suppose was my bad luck
***Further side note I won the tournament but more through good luck than good play.

Your pre flop raise is perfect (you want action with KK with 16bb)

But only getting called usually indicates nobody is to strong. Certainly not AK AQ. Probably low to mid pairs or connectors.
So when you flop top set with a very dry board like that, check check check that flop. C-bets are the norm but mixing it up is fine in this spot. Your praying someone turns a lower set, a draw or tries to bluff.
Your winning this hand 95% of the time after the flop so the idea is to get as many chips int o the pot as possible.

Now if it came k 10 7 for instance thats different.

[maccatak11]

I think you played it fine. We have had the discussion on here a few times i think about what to do with sets on dry boards, and i personally think the best way to disguise those hands is to bet out anyway.

On a board such as this, because it is so dry, a standard c-bet gets action from most pairs, all Kx hands and a lot of Aces too who will float and re-evaluate on the turn. Good players may even float with a wider range with the intent of bluffing turn or river.

In response to Pat: yes we want as many chips in the pot, but i dont think we get maximum value here by checking the flop. Lets say we check flop, and induce a bet from LP. Once we either call or raise this bet, the bluffer is likely done with the hand i think.

By making a standard c-bet, which good players will recognise that we are doing with most of our range, and are likely to call or even raise our flop bet. Then i think we check turn to try and check raise, or flat to bet river. How many times have you flatted a c-bettor from late pos, and fire a checked turn to take it down? Lots probably, cos that line looks like the c-bettor has squadoosh. This is our max value line i think.

[Patrick_Dillon]

I think you played it fine. We have had the discussion on here a few times i think about what to do with sets on dry boards, and i personally think the best way to disguise those hands is to bet out anyway.

On a board such as this, because it is so dry, a standard c-bet gets action from most pairs, all Kx hands and a lot of Aces too who will float and re-evaluate on the turn. Good players may even float with a wider range with the intent of bluffing turn or river.

In response to Pat: yes we want as many chips in the pot, but i dont think we get maximum value here by checking the flop. Lets say we check flop, and induce a bet from LP. Once we either call or raise this bet, the bluffer is likely done with the hand i think.

By making a standard c-bet, which good players will recognise that we are doing with most of our range, and are likely to call or even raise our flop bet. Then i think we check turn to try and check raise, or flat to bet river. How many times have you flatted a c-bettor from late pos, and fire a checked turn to take it down? Lots probably, cos that line looks like the c-bettor has squadoosh. This is our max value line i think.

Problem being though that the C bet was for most of her remaining stack. So will always get action from pairs that don't believe her but never from someone who may float with deeper stacks. With the stage of the tourney, the relevent chips stacks, this C bet is only getting called by a hand that would have reshipped pre. (Like my AA, if I hadn't gone to the kitchen )

[maccatak11]

yeah thats true, i was talking probably more generally about c-betting sets on dry boards rather than in this specific situation. I think i ship it in pre with 12BB.

[trishan]

I would jam KK with 16BB left in early to mid position. Being on the button here makes it a little different I think. I think you are more likely to get action if you raise as opposed to jam because your raising range OTB even with two limpers in pretty wide and you would hope that someone realises this, wants to get frisky, plays back and walks straight into the Darwin of your Rangestralia. IMO I think raising is more +EV than jamming and you have position post flop.

But open to hearing anyone's thoughts who advocates jamming here too.

[trishan]

Out of interest. If a button player with 2 limpers jams is their range wider than someone who raises?

Raising with any two cards can push out the blinds and limpers so this might suggest a wider range particularly as they would be in position post flop.

The jamming ranges with 16BB on the button is pretty wide as well, but is it wider than raising and why?

[madali]

Out of interest. If a button player with 2 limpers jams is their range wider than someone who raises?

Raising with any two cards can push out the blinds and limpers so this might suggest a wider range particularly as they would be in position post flop.

The jamming ranges with 16BB on the button is pretty wide as well, but is it wider than raising and why?

To me this can vary dramatically depending on the player. Some players would jam it on the button with a low stack with any two cards and if my stack was healthy enough I would call them. I would only be limping from early position if I was prepared to call the all in of the low stack. Yet this same player if they bet I would be less inclined to call unless I was getting the odds to do so as this would suggest to me that they wanted to be called. If I called I would be prepared to call the all in on the flop. With other players whether they bet or shoved on the button I would know that they had a hand and would need the odds and the chips to call them. I would be less likely to just limp with this player anyway and would prefer a raise so I can put them in the difficult position of having to shove all there chips in if they are going to play.

The reason that I posted this hand was that Pat did not believe that I had pocket kings. I don't think he even thought I had a king so this being the case have I not done what I wanted and disguised my hand? I have seen many players ( not the ones on here) who even if they had a small pair or an ace rag would push me here with the thought " I knew if I hit I won". Also others who would think they could still push me out of this hand even though I had most of my stack in the pot ( again not players on here). And with the limp caller he has called knowing that in reality I was committed the hand which to me would be an indication of strength. If you call pre pretty sure you know what is happening on the flop regardless of what comes out.

That is just my thoughts and as I said before I am trying to explore my play and get differing points of view so I can improve my game. I appreciate everyone's honesty with the responses. I love reading the hand discussions on here as it really opens my mind to why some players make a certain moves and I can adjust my play to respond to these moves. You all have such differing styles yet are such strong players and I love learning off each and every one of you.

***side note Happy Birthday to me

[Conspiracy Theorist]

***side note Happy Birthday to me

Just saw this....

Happy Birthday. Hope its an enjoyable and stress free day for you.

CT