Biggest donkout idiotic tourney I have ever seen

[AceLosesKing]

Why does noone want to discuss or argue anything poker related I say?

Cos you're always right.

[krunchie]

Why does noone want to discuss or argue anything poker related I say?

We are not worthy

[Garth Kay]

Fine then.

[Des]

because your mum jokes are better than ours

just like your mum is better than mine

[Garth Kay]

because your mum jokes are better than ours

just like your mum is better than mine

How would you know your own mum is better than mine.

That's just sick Des.

Although your mum does do a fine brekky in bed.

[Des]

because your mum jokes are better than ours

just like your mum is better than mine

How would you know your own mum is better than mine.

That's just sick Des.

Although your mum does do a fine brekky in bed.

Sigh.. you are still the master.

[AJG]

I started to Garth, then had to go to my weekly away event...

Pot is worth 150 + 300 + 552 = 1002. BB has to call off 252 to win 1002, he is getting 4 to 1 on his pot odds, not only that but it is only 5% of his stack to call. This alone implies insta call even if his opponent has AA, he is only a 4 to 1 dog preflop.

Yeah, I know ur gettin odds to call with any 2 cards, but pot odds alone shouldnt dictate play. If they did the poker bots would be kickin our arse when we get to SS SAIE situations...
But if you know your opp had AA you'd still call? Better to save 252 chips imho. even if its only 5% of my stack.

The example was a little extreme, I was commenting on the more general stuation, near the end of a tourney, say 1000/2000 BB has 60K and BTN shoves for 5?

It annoys me when bigstacks call a small push (espcially late in a tourney) ONLY because they were gettin 2:1 or better and had them well covered.
So many times they just end up doubling the player up where a fold would more than likely have him blinded/ante'd out in the next round. (OK no antes on 888.com)

[AJG]

because your mum jokes are better than ours

just like your mum is better than mine

How would you know your own mum is better than mine.

That's just sick Des.

Although your mum does do a fine brekky in bed.

ROFLMAO!

[AJG]

Why does noone want to discuss or argue anything poker related I say?

I love to discuss, hate to argue...
Especially a subject like Poker where ther is seldom a right/wrong decision.

[Garth Kay]

Would you agree with either of these statements:

Any game of poker is all about making +EV plays
A player who always makes +EV plays over an infinite amount of hands will be a winning player

Let's use this scenario:
Blinds are 1000/2000
Action folds to button and he shoves for 3,500
SB Folds
You are in the BB holding 4,5s such a rag hand, and probably not a hand you would a call an all in with.

You have a magical read and you know without a doubt your opponent is holding AA. If anyone can do this and read at this level I will be astounded and give up poker.You would have to be playing against someone who jumps out of their chair every time they see AA.

Now our percentages of each player winning the hand:

4,5s - 20.29%
A,A - 79.22%
Tie - 0.49%

I am calling of 1,500 to win 6,500. I am effectively getting 4.3 to 1 on pot odds. And the total pot is worth 8,000.

Let's run this hand an infinite amount of times which negates the impact of variance. Now if we take a sample of 100 times (and extract the variance impact).

I will call off 1,500 chips X 100 times = 150,000 total in chips - my cost to be involved in this hand.
I will win 20.29 times, 20.29 X 8,000 = 162,320 equals chips I win over this sample
Even if we round this down to 20 I will win 160,000 in chips.

This is a +EV play for me, maybe only slightly +EV, even neutral really, but the fact of the matter is over an infinite amount of times I will make profit from calling in this situation with a dog hand.

Then we have to look at other external factors such as effective chip stack sizes, equity involved in the hand, playing style of your opponent, shoving ranges, etc.... In this scenario, playing online especially, you cannot put your opponent on AA. His shoving range is huge if he is any type of decent player.

Also the cost to your stack and the position you leave your opponent if he does double through needs to be considered. But in these scenarios it is almost negligible. I would suggest that if you are priced in at 3 to 1 or greater and it will cost you up to 8% of your stack then it is a snap call with ATC.

I do not fault anyone from calling an PFAI when they are in a heads up or multiway situation if they are priced in and they are not removing anymore than 10% of their stack to call.

To be quite honest I quite enjoy making those calls with rag hands when I have equity in the hand, am getting the right odds and it's only a fraction of my stack. Because when I do win with those rag hands, I move one spot closer to the money and I have someone on the rail screaming at me for being a donkey: I relish the fact that there are still some tournament players out there that do not grasp the basic mathematical fundamentals of this game. And I know that poker will be around for years and years and continue to thrive.