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Rather Disappointed

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:07 pm
by pmk
I know this is my first post (if the mods ban me it will be my last), and in all probability it will be either edited of deleted by the moderators but I'm posting it anyway.

My work load has eased slightly which has allowed me to do some further reading on a small hobby I have: playing poker. Thus I found my way here to this forum with the intent of learning and sharing some pictures from various events. But now I wish I hadn’t.

I’ve discovered that a few of you are elitist, arrogant #$$@#$@#*s who ridicule and humiliate others for what YOU deem as incorrect play. (888 staff are emphatically excluded from this generalisation.)

Not only do some of you abuse people in-game for not playing how YOU want them to play THEIR cards but you then come here to make fun of and deride those with different “skill” levels or knowledge.

I’m particularly surprised at you maccatak11 as your profile lists you as a teacher. Do you abuse your students and call them retards because they don’t know as much as you? Do you then go back to the teacher’s lounge and use those poor students as a source of amusement for all and sundry? You know (or should) from all your training that this type of behaviour is totally inappropriate. Why should it be any different because you’re online? Do you think the mask of anonymity makes you unaccountable for your actions?

Would you call me a retard to my face? Would you publicly make disparaging remarks about the way I played a hand in person? Unless you are totally sociopathic I expect not.

During my 20 years of working on the Net I have come across this false bravado many times and in most cases the online persona does not fit the real life version. I sincerely hope this is the case here, but then again, some people have immature personalities that only really show their true colours online. (a quick google search will locate psychology papers dedicated to this phenomenon)

If the playing levels or strategies of us donks (substitute any one of the plethora of abusive names) offends you so much why don’t you put your actions where your mouth is and run the maccatak Pro Poker School. I’m sure you’ll get floods of people rushing to play like you.

By all means, look down your nose and scoff at my ineptitude for poker but at least show me the basic respect one affords a reasonable member of the human race. If you, or any other of the poker elite have a constructive criticism then please share it in a positive manner. You of all people should know that negative reinforcement is not the best way to teach.

I’m a single parent who works 12-14 hours a day 6-7 days of the week. I need to spend several hours a week on professional development and I also have a household to run. So spare time to indulge and further develop my hobby (which I started playing in earnest last season) is but a few scant hours a week. I don’t have the luxury of hours to read and hone my poker strategies and techniques. But I learn where I can.

Just the other day I picked up a new strategy from Suzi (888 staffer - thanks Suzi ;) ) which, while it worked quite well, I need to practice and fill the gaping holes through which I bleed chips.

I am simply just cannon fodder (“very loose passive” to you poker elite) who wants to learn more but I’m finding more and more people are deeming it acceptable to be abusive online. Which adds an extra variable: the Smeghead Poker Elite Approval Rating (maybe that could be added to the abbreviations). What will they think of that play? Have I bet too much for the cards/position/players? Or should I have checked then? Maybe I should have folded my AA when they raised with AQ? Will I be publicly crucified and ridiculed on the forums when they post the hand? Etc, etc, etc.

Who needs that sort of crap? I certainly don’t and I’ve never experienced with any other online poker, just 888PL online games.

My apologies to those who frequent these forums and do not behave in an inappropriate manner. My post was not aimed at you. My only excuse for this wannabe-rant is merely that my tolerance for fools and idiots grows less as I age.

Re: Rather Disappointed

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:13 pm
by maccatak11
Can you remind of the situation please? i need specific details, because i want to know the specific context of my comments before i reply. Because i certainly will reply to to above post once i do.

Re: Rather Disappointed

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:52 pm
by muzzington
pmk wrote:I know this is my first post (if the mods ban me it will be my last), and in all probability it will be either edited of deleted by the moderators but I'm posting it anyway.


It's fine in my opinion, as long as it doesn't get too nasty.

Re: Rather Disappointed

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:21 pm
by Gaz787
I have no comment since I don't know the situation to which you refer to, however I would like to commend you on your use of the word "Smeghead".

Re: Rather Disappointed

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:33 pm
by Garth Kay
Gaz787 wrote:I have no comment since I don't know the situation to which you refer to, however I would like to commend you on your use of the word "Smeghead".


+1, on holidays and just recently finished watching the movie.

Welcome to the forum PMK.

I notice you have decided to step right in and mix it up. The phenomenom of which forms the bass of your post is called "tapping the glass", something we definitely try to put a stop to on this forum and all of out tournaments.

In our poker league we have a very diverse range of players all with different levels of playing skills. This forum is one of the primary tools that we use to disperse our knowledge of the game and hopefully educate more players about simple basic strategies and ideas all the way through to semi complex meta game processes.

I have moderated this froum since inception and have been on here almost daily since the creation and launch of it. Macattack is a long standing member and I can personally vouch for his character and that out of all the regular contributors he is definitely not one of the elitists (I am yet to determine who the elitists are) nor does he act inappropriately as much as many do on here. I have no idea what offence or how Macca has caused this but I am sure that Macca would be more than forthcoming with an apology if he was found to be in the wrong somehow, and I am sure the same applies in the reverse.

I do not wish this to become a slanging match back and forth but a discussion between to league members, and I don't believe this discussion should take place in a public forum, please use PM's for future communication on this matter.

In closing, feel free to join us on the forum to discuss many things, most importantly I look forward to discussing some hands and strat in the not too distant future.

Re: Rather Disappointed

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:18 pm
by maccatak11
maccatak11 wrote:Can you remind of the situation please? i need specific details, because i want to know the specific context of my comments before i reply. Because i certainly will reply to to above post once i do.


The reason i posted this was that i was struggling to recall the situation when this happened. I like others play a fair bit online. I have to assume that i did use the word you suggested I did, and for that I apologize. A throwaway line meant in jest seems to have been taken in very much the wrong way, but i must say, in your twenty years on the internet, surely you know the different ways that 'text based' jokes (bad taste or not) can be interpreted.

I’m not sure if there are any other contributing factors behind your opening post but this is what really disappoints me.

Its disappointing that from one particular comment that you draw such wide-ranging conclusions on myself as a person and others on this forum. I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that myself or others were elitist in any way, and if you think this of me, then i also expect an apology.

To me in sounds like you are annoyed that somebody said something bad to you, so you come to a public forum and do the exact same thing. This smacks of hypocrisy in my opinion.

What really has offended me is your comments about myself and my profession. This insulting drivel about my integrity as a teacher has absolutely no correlation to a game of online poker and the fact that you link the two is sad. Perhaps it is you that is hiding behind the anonymity of the internet, as you leave nothing but returned insults.

Any concerns could have been directed to me in a private message and i would have gladly extended an apology. The only reason i am not replying to you in a private message is that i feel i am replying not only on my behalf, but also on behalf of the others on this forum that you have insulted. I certainly don’t mean to cause offence to others, but the back-and-forth banter that occurs in chat boxes is something that should be fun, and ‘insults’ taken with a grain of salt.

So in short, don’t be so precious, and don’t post personal comments about others in a public forum.

Re: Rather Disappointed

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:07 pm
by AJG
pmk wrote:I’ve discovered that a few of you are elitist, arrogant #$$@#$@#*s who ridicule and humiliate others for what YOU deem as incorrect play. (888 staff are emphatically excluded from this generalisation.)


+1.
There are many posts/replies where people will say things like "thinking like that is idiotic", which although they protest is not calling that person an idiot, infact it is... paraphrase: "You are an idiot to think that way" ???
Even claiming a very specific strategy only used in very specific situations, is just WRONG (even though it works, but I bet they havent actually tried it, after claiming the original poster should ALWAYS try new suggestions)...
Or they will just say something like "no, badly played" or whatever, without any qualification of WHY it is (in their opinion) bad...
Most annoying replies I find is the single word 'standard'... Why even bother posting that?


maccatak::
There was NO 'drivel about your integrity as a teacher'???
It was simply used allegorically, and I personally I read it entirely rhetorically...
Nowhere did it say you were a bad teacher, or that teaching was anything less than a first rate profession...
You personally were mentioned in the post, and so it seems from reading your post you feel the need to lash back.
It seems to me you were personally mentioned because of your profession, and for no other reason. PMK only said they were dissapointed in you is all... So you decide to write an epic post at how personally offended you are, and also on behalf of all those other on this forum the OP insulted...
NO-ONE in the OP was personally insulted??
What comment did the OP make about you as a person?
And it wasnt from one single comment...
OP clearly stated they read through the forums and THEN came to their conclusions...


And honestly, I understand pmk reaching this conclusion, that there are some on the forums who come across as arrogant and elitist...
Text based communication leaves a lot of room for misinterpretation, and sometimes it seems people post without really thinking how others will take their posts... and to say, 'don't be so precious' is being just as insensitive.

Re: Rather Disappointed

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:09 pm
by Brett Kay
PMK,

Chat abuse is prevalent everywhere. You can see in the hand discussion forum that everybody sometimes has a different idea of how to play a hand. Which is fair enough, being abused for playing that way is pretty much a low point in any poker players life.

God knows i have had enough chat abuse and hardly ever use the chat box anymore. Mind you some of my plays are questionable, sometimes i can't explain it for more than a "lets Gambool" to a "it feels good".

When players abuse you though, most of the times, they are trying to get you out of your mindset, without doing much, they start making you over think your hands, and playing wrong, this is called TILT. Sometimes it is easier to shrug go thanks Nice throw, and just let them rant.

Every once in a while, minimise you chat window, don't look at it. Turn of the pop up boxes. And whether or not someone rants at you. Good on them, let them vent it out.

As for staff members, there are always questionable plays by us. I have been challenged heads up by a few people, not to mention being called a donk. As far as i was concerned, they played their hand a little badly and i capitalised on their mistakes. Yes i have gotten lucky a few times as well, getting my money in bad and sucking out.

Standard in poker, some people just have to learn to move on and get onto the next hand. The more they stew the more mistakes they will make.

Good luck on the felt, Welcome to the forums. Hope to see some more constructive posts.

Brett. :-)

Re: Rather Disappointed

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:19 pm
by AceLosesKing
AJG wrote:+1.
There are many posts/replies where people will say things like "thinking like that is idiotic", which although they protest is not calling that person an idiot, infact it is... paraphrase: "You are an idiot to think that way" ???


Wrong.

Edit: Further detail.

Just because someone says that a certain line of thinking is idiotic, does not mean to say that the are calling that person an idiot, far from it.

AJG wrote:maccatak::
There was NO 'drivel about your integrity as a teacher'???
It was simply used allegorically, and I personally I read it entirely rhetorically...
Nowhere did it say you were a bad teacher, or that teaching was anything less than a first rate profession...
You personally were mentioned in the post, and so it seems from reading your post you feel the need to lash back.
It seems to me you were personally mentioned because of your profession, and for no other reason. PMK only said they were dissapointed in you is all... So you decide to write an epic post at how personally offended you are, and also on behalf of all those other on this forum the OP insulted...
NO-ONE in the OP was personally insulted??
What comment did the OP make about you as a person?
And it wasnt from one single comment...
OP clearly stated they read through the forums and THEN came to their conclusions...


Omg, what post did you read.

pmk wrote:I’m particularly surprised at you maccatak11 as your profile lists you as a teacher. Do you abuse your students and call them retards because they don’t know as much as you? Do you then go back to the teacher’s lounge and use those poor students as a source of amusement for all and sundry? You know (or should) from all your training that this type of behaviour is totally inappropriate. Why should it be any different because you’re online? Do you think the mask of anonymity makes you unaccountable for your actions?

Re: Rather Disappointed

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:24 pm
by Garth Kay
I really don't think anyone else needs to get involved in this conversation until PMK decides to clarify his first post and respond to Macca.