$10 Deepstack, QQ UTG, facing huge raise from the blinds.

[rcon]

to me, it looks like classic pub poker move that people transitioning from 10-30bb poker to 300bb poker

i.e i have aces, but its so early, how am i going to go all in if i dont raise lots?

+10

this is my thinking as well. I don't mind Kruchie's line of flatting, but you really are then playing for the set and expecting your tournament equity to be increased beyond merely having the big stack. Does being the BS really derive that much equity for you? I dont think so, not when all you've risked it T70

[bennymacca]

Does being the BS really derive that much equity for you? I dont think so, not when all you've risked it T70

not it this stage of the tournament. it certainly doesn't double

[rcon]

Does being the BS really derive that much equity for you? I dont think so, not when all you've risked it T70

not it this stage of the tournament. it certainly doesn't double

of course, the question was rhetorical! FWIW, I think you can find a fold with KK in this position, against this field.

[gmatical]

This conversation is getting a bit ridiculous.

MACCA - any reads/stats/history with villain.

This three bet size implies ALL POCKET pairs from JJ+. Most 888PL players will not play AK as agro (because it isn't a pair).

Also if it is KK villain will more than likely slow down and not bet any Ace flops. But will open shove all others.

So let's say we do some REAL basic maths (and not consider set over set scenarios - because I dont have much time)

We will hit a set 1 in ten time. We know that villain will stack off on ALL boards. So therefore we are winning approx 10K (1 hand that wins) for every 11,500 (9 calls of 1300 odd that see us lose)

Therefore with even basic maths scrawled out at this rate where I am not even fully focused I can see it's an instant fold (simply based on implied odds)

Huh?

Its the 3rd hand, I doubt reads come into it
Why do we need a set to win this hand?
How do we know villan will stack off all boards?
Ridiculous Conversation? Hardly, this is hand discussion - all discussion & opinions are welcomed.

How can we ALWAYS play so standard when presented with such a non standard situation?

[maccatak11]

Read the OP garth. no reads on villain (however i should have rephrased this to include stats/history, although i would have mentioned this if i had any).

Gmatical, Garth is only doing the maths for a set because people have mentioned that this is a good implied odds scenario.

Some info can be gained even from the first hand Gmatical. if i had seen villain open shove his 10k on the first two hands, then it can obviously change our thinking, but is this situation, i was completely blind i.e. not one iota of info on them.

[gmatical]

Some info can be gained even from the first hand Gmatical. if i had seen villain open shove his 10k on the first two hands, then it can obviously change our thinking, but is this situation, i was completely blind i.e. not one iota of info on them.

Truedat.

to me, it looks like classic pub poker move that people transitioning from 10-30bb poker to 300bb poker

i.e i have aces, but its so early, how am i going to go all in if i dont raise lots?

+10

Or could just as easily be "I hate JJ so I gotta raise it huge"

Hopefully we will one day find out the result.

[Garth Kay]

Huh?

Its the 3rd hand, I doubt reads come into it
Why do we need a set to win this hand?
How do we know villan will stack off all boards?
Ridiculous Conversation? Hardly, this is hand discussion - all discussion & opinions are welcomed.

How can we ALWAYS play so standard when presented with such a non standard situation?

I asked for reads, stats and/or past history with villain. If villain three bet the first two hands of the tourney so dramatically then it does change the range we apply.

We need a set because we are placing opponent on an overpair.

Villain has no concept of bet sizing and therefore will stack off on all boards, has over valued their hand dramatically.

This is an easy fold every day of the week with so little information = standard play in a VERY standard situation.

And by ridiculous I mean the back and forth with no clear discussion or resolution been sought. I'm not seeing a lot of strat discussion or mathematical break down yet this thread has exploded to over 7 pages.

If I was a novice this thread would hold very little educational value and probably weighs more heavily in the "wow, I just wasted ten minutes of my life reading peoples repeated opinions!"

[gmatical]

Huh?

Its the 3rd hand, I doubt reads come into it
Why do we need a set to win this hand?
How do we know villan will stack off all boards?
Ridiculous Conversation? Hardly, this is hand discussion - all discussion & opinions are welcomed.

How can we ALWAYS play so standard when presented with such a non standard situation?

I asked for reads, stats and/or past history with villain. If villain three bet the first two hands of the tourney so dramatically then it does change the range we apply.
Okay - would have thought OP would have mentioned previous relevent action

We need a set because we are placing opponent on an overpair.
Range is larger then this

Villain has no concept of bet sizing and therefore will stack off on all boards, has over valued their hand dramatically.
Could have been a misclick, panic over bet to fold scary boards, how can you be so sure or their action?

This is an easy fold every day of the week with so little information = standard play in a VERY standard situation.
Not sure a 68xbb re-raise is standard, I can't remember the last time I have seen this 3rd hand

And by ridiculous I mean the back and forth with no clear discussion or resolution been sought. I'm not seeing a lot of strat discussion or mathematical break down yet this thread has exploded to over 7 pages.
Oh yeah, maths, cool. Feel free to repost in the Advanced thread. We have mentioned ranges - but how can we reach resolution? We are independent thinkers with different thoughts and approaches.

If I was a novice this thread would hold very little educational value and probably weighs more heavily in the "wow, I just wasted ten minutes of my life reading peoples repeated opinions!"
If I was a novice posts like this would discourage my involvement at the detriment of thought exchange for everyone.

You really need to get off your high horse about hands Garth - if you think we are all so stupid (which is what you are saying in a round about way) dont post in the hand discussion threads. Go to 2+2 for more 'worthy' content

[Garth Kay]

Sure Glenn.

No worries.

[trishan]

OK guys let's do some maths then but first let's agree on the possible ways the hand could play out.

One move is to re-raise all in. Then the maths look like so:
EV = [(% of time he folds) * 1400] + [(% of time he calls)*Equity*20,000]

After the flop you are in position and let's assume a 60% c-bet of 1632 (Pot:2720). On what boards are we continuing and what's the plan for later streets?