You're a Bunch of Factors

ok at the wheaty blinds 300/600 im holding 5500

BB i have 4 5 its checked around 4 players in the pot and me around i check FLOP 6c 7h 8c.....SWEET

P1 check, P2 check, me check, P3 1500, P4 call

i re-raise all in 5500 someones on the draw

P1 fold, P2 call, P3 fold (bluffing), P4 call all in $4000

we turn up i flop the straight, P2 had Qc 7c, P4 99

turn was a club and im outta there. pot was worth nearly $20 and im wondering, would you guys call with midddle pair and a draw? i was gutted i did must admit spit the dummy a little bit.

middle pair hell no, no way in hell

flush draw - still no, but a lot of people would make that call

Q7 - No, not all in. Possibly for, say... $1000, max? Would depend on my stack, though.

99 - Maybe.

I wouldn't be check-raising bottom straight, that's for sure. Sucky result, but the hand could have been shut down beforehand.

Scott wrote:I wouldn't be check-raising bottom straight, that's for sure. Sucky result, but the hand could have been shut down beforehand.

I don't mind that play, actually.

Even if Todd had moved all in on the flop, I can still see Q7 and 99 calling.

Yeah bottom straight is a tricky one.. kinda like 2 pair in that in can really hurt you despite you being waaayyyy in front on the flop.

Straight off the bat you're behind to 9T which is a very playable hand (and one of my faves).

If there's any kind of flush draw you don't wanna even see the turn really because if there's anything people will chase it's a flush draw. If there's not then I'd have no problem with a check-raise, but it sounds like there was.

Q7 was dense.

99 had a made overpair and an up/down draw on the flop... so unless they were chucking in most of their stack you can't really blame them for staying in the hand.

Pretty unlucky really though.

todd182 wrote:we turn up i flop the straight, P2 had Qc 7c, P4 99

turn was a club and im outta there. pot was worth nearly $20 and im wondering, would you guys call with midddle pair and a draw?

I reckon I would consider calling. Sure it's a risk, but with such a big pot it's probably worth this risk to set you up for the tournament. You've got to take risks early in NPL right?

Think about the position that P2 is in. He's got a flush draw AND has hit a pair on a low board. Everyone checks except 1 player who puts out a late position 1.5k bet. So he decides to call this, then someone raises again, now it's time to reassess the situation. It's not a simple call of the 5.5k bet, he's already invested a lot of chips into this pot and as you said, the pot was worth nearly 20k. Also, how many chips has this guy got? If his tournament life isn't riding on the hand, it's a lot easier call to make.

no you absolutely do not have to take risks early in NPL

Given the blind structure, one semi-decent hand later on puts you right back in the tourney.

In fact, an early lead means very little for exactly the same reason.

BigPete33 wrote:no you absolutely do not have to take risks early in NPL

Given the blind structure, one semi-decent hand later on puts you right back in the tourney.

In fact, an early lead means very little for exactly the same reason.

Possibly. But sometimes I reckon it's worth the risk early, with middle pair and a drawing hand, rather than a semi decent hand later on (preflop) which gets burnt by someone calling for value.

That's fine, but I'll almost guarantee that 'value' isn't the reason they called

I'm going to have to spend the day inventing a word for it I think