99 and OP to board facing a turn shove

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AJG
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99 and OP to board facing a turn shove

Postby AJG » Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:20 am

This was a 45 player SnG

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $5.00+$0.50 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB (t1870)
BB (t1360)
UTG (t1410)
UTG+1 (t1540)
MP1 (t1490)
Hero (MP2) (t1420)
MP3 (t1660)
CO (t1740)
Button (t1010)

Hero's M: 47.33

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9Image, 9Image
UTG calls t20, 2 folds, Hero bets t80, 3 folds, SB raises to t160, 2 folds, Hero calls t80

Flop: (t360) 8Image, 2Image, 4Image (2 players)
SB bets t140, Hero calls t140

Turn: (t640) 6Image (2 players)
SB bets t1570 (All-In), Hero ???

Too early for any real reads, but opponent had won a few pots pre, and with cbets on the flop (well I dont know if he hit), but only a few small pots.
Me: this was my 1st hand to see a flop NOT from the blinds...

I know I should have raised the flop, I didn't notice the 2 hearts as I had action on another table where I was deeper and in a multiway pot. I didnt even look at the bet amount, just clicked call and got back to the other hand (which I won, stacking two players with a flopped FH :D)
At the time his shove overbet made me think AK (the hand, not ALK ;) )

Only other information on opponent comes from a later hand when he limp called 4BB from utg+1 with 96o
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Re: 99 and OP to board facing a turn shove

Postby bennymacca » Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:45 am

what hand range do you think he would take this line with that you beat?

i would suggest pretty much nothing.

if he has Aq/AK then just let him have it. i think he has either flopped a set or has an overpair here.
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Re: 99 and OP to board facing a turn shove

Postby Glyn Parsons » Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:05 am

The stars 45 mans structure is fairly turbo, and your looking to build a stack fair early, sit back and stay away from those getting it in fairly light, so i call here but thats me.

Villains min raise pre is weird as and normally screams KK, AA but based on your read later, it seems his range is quite wide and it is viable he has a set here, or complete air AK AQ,. your set fold on the turn in an earlier post, havent really been following forum as of late, gave me the impression your faily TAG, could be wrong will stay in touch with posts from now lol, and i think that if this is true, you can wait for a better spot, as your still deep and your M is fine
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Re: 99 and OP to board facing a turn shove

Postby Garth Kay » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:54 am

This to me reads as a larger overpair than mine and the turn bet is to scare off draws.

I fold in this spot. I can find better places to put my tournament life on the line and I need m0re information on players before I decide to call off here!
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Re: 99 and OP to board facing a turn shove

Postby Brett Kay » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:03 pm

Needed to reraise the flop here. Calling the bet tells you nothing about his hand and puts you at a significant disadvantage on the turn.

If the standard rr - call. goes through, easy to push and take his hand out with A8.

at 5.50 top pair a lot of people will push with, if he has over pair, smile and move on.

Mind you i am pretty laggy in the early levels.
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Re: 99 and OP to board facing a turn shove

Postby Brett Kay » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:05 pm

Just saw the reraise line by him in the OP.

Still inclined to think he has AK AQ, and pushing because he thinks he has your cards covered.

I gamble way too much in Sit n Go's. But got to get healthy stacks somehow.
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Re: 99 and OP to board facing a turn shove

Postby AJG » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:12 pm

Thanks all for your input.

Here is the result from the hand in OP:

Turn: (t640) 6Image (2 players)
SB bets t1570 (All-In), Hero calls t1120 (All-In)

River: (t2880) 4Image (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: t2880

Results:
SB had KImage, AImage (one pair, fours).
Hero had 9Image, 9Image (two pair, nines and fours).
Outcome: Hero won t2880

My read of AK was spot on, and based almost entirtely on the play this hand.
His minraise/reraise didnt enter my thinking at all...
To me it just slammed of AK/AQ even though there was a flush draw out there:
a) There was only 1 card to come, and had he been scared of the flush draw, I suspect he'd of bet more on the flop. His flop bet looks like a weak cbet to me
b) If he did have a set/higher pair, then imo shoving is not the best way to extract value from his hand.
c) Possibly he had a flushdraw with overs, and was on a semi-bluff.
d) a + b + c = trying to buy the pot, IMO.

I did tank a tad before calling... Thinking all of the above and hitting call with about 15 seconds left on my time bank (and my eyes closed ;) ).
Last edited by AJG on Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 99 and OP to board facing a turn shove

Postby AJG » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:04 pm

Glyn: Are you the Glyn who TDs thoue southern area, ie the FTT touney at the Flagstaff with Caleb (dealing the FT)?
Anyway... Yes I folded a turned set, as I explained, cos the turn also made a flush and it was a 4 way pot and still early and in a $1 MTT :roll: ...

I seem to have gotten an image of TAG on these forums, and rereading my posts I see why, but personally I dont put myself on any particular style.

Usually in a (large) MTT I will play TAG for the first level or 2, mainly just to give me time to pick up any tendancies of of other players/get the feel of my table. As the tournament progresses I play many different styles, trying to keep my opponents 'off balance' in regard to my play. In tourneys with antes, I get quite aggressive,especially at the levels with an high ante:SB ratio, and also on the $$$ and FT bubbles. Within an hour at later levels, I can play TAG-LAG-LP-TAG just to mix up my game.
In SnGs (45-90), I loosen up a bit more right from the get go, but still change up my play as the tournament progresses. The 180s I treat more like MTTs.
In STTs, i will play extremely TAG down to about 5-4 left, as imo, this is the best way to play them: Let other knock each other out playing their suited 89's and whatnot, then clean up the remnants... Another opinion I have about STTs (9-10 handed) that I was discussing at my local away venue is the worst place to finish is 2nd... Its 3rd or 1st for me, ie once we are 3 handed I will take alot more risks to build a winning stack.
Most of my online poker time is spent in HU SnGs and HUTRNs, where I am extremely LAG... and, if I may say so, quite successful....

online time is spent approx 60% HU, 30% spent between STTs, MTTs, Ring, and 10% trawling forums and strategy sites to improve my game.
I am only just beginning to add PLO to my resume, so most of the above is NLHE exclusively (I never play limit)...

Most of the hands I have posted here have actually been from 888pl online games and honestly I do tend to play more TAG, esp early in these games, as Im not overly impressed with the standard of play (chasing too much etc - or like pauly in last night's $3 6max BigPete? :shock: [TID btw Pete :)]), and alot of ppl play exactly the same as they do in the 'away' mega-turbo shortstack freerolls... Hence I do tend to play somewhat differently than if I was in the FTP 750K or PS Sunday Millions (admittedly I have only ever Sat'd into either of these, but my point is: a tourney of higher standard)

Having won a few of the $3 buyins, and also watching the FT play out when I make it but bust before HU, I personally think most people (and not just on 888) suck HU.
On 888 I have only had 1 decent HU battle and that was with Ursula in the Sunday $3 6max a few weeks ago... and in the chat even she admitted to not being overly comfortable (nor in her words 'very good) at HU.

The reason I started playing HU SnGs is that (obv) if you dont know how to adjust to HU play after a full table, you will never WIN a tournament, unless you get lucky or so outstack 2nd place its not even a competition.
I found I was good at it, and my skills in this area of the game increased quicker than full-table play, so I started to play more and also HUTRNs. imo, this is the biggest adjustment needed in tournament poker, the HU stage, even though at the FT or a STT the play varies as each player is eliminated, 3 handed is still very different from HU.
I might paraphrase this last paragraph in a seperate post and possibly write some things about HU play, especially the leaks I tend most to see when playing or watching FTs on 888 if there is any interest.
Image ...11.59% of bad beat stories are just misplayed hands ...

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Re: 99 and OP to board facing a turn shove

Postby Caleb » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:58 am

AJG wrote:Glyn: Are you the Glyn who TDs thoue southern area, ie the FTT touney at the Flagstaff with Caleb (dealing the FT)?


Yep. Sideshow Glyn that is.
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Re: 99 and OP to board facing a turn shove

Postby AJG » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:34 am

Caleb Rybalka wrote:
AJG wrote:Glyn: Are you the Glyn who TDs thoue southern area, ie the FTT touney at the Flagstaff with Caleb (dealing the FT)?


Yep. Sideshow Glyn that is.

ROFLMAO
Image ...11.59% of bad beat stories are just misplayed hands ...


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