10NL (6 max - 4 players) - Turned a straight - What now?

[trishan]

The player seems to be pretty fishy. Has a high VPIP and opens loose from the button. I decided to call his raise preflop from the BB as he does open loose and Q 10 doesn't play terribly.

PokerStars Game #36977127740: Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10 USD) - 2009/12/21 14:51:17 AEST [2009/12/20 22:51:17 ET]
Table 'Carnegia VI' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: thorli_AA ($10.40 in chips)
Seat 4: peanut4sam ($10.35 in chips)
Seat 5: trishan09 ($10.10 in chips)
Seat 6: OhMyMamba ($10.85 in chips)
blotikx will be allowed to play after the button
peanut4sam: posts small blind $0.05
trishan09: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to trishan09 [Qd Tc]
OhMyMamba: folds
thorli_AA: raises $0.20 to $0.30
wie9dcn3 has returned
peanut4sam: folds
trishan09: calls $0.20
*** FLOP *** [Kd 2c Jc]
trishan09: checks
thorli_AA: bets $0.40
trishan09: calls $0.40

Standard call with an OESD. Raise? Fold ever?

*** TURN *** [Kd 2c Jc] [9c]
trishan09: checks
thorli_AA: bets $1

He bets $1 into a pot of $1.45. I think raising is right here? If not why flat? Are we ever folding?

trishan09: raises $2 to $3

What should I do if he reraises/shoves? I have $6.40 behind.

[bennymacca]

interesting spot trishan.

I decided to call his raise preflop from the BB as he does open loose and Q 10 doesn't play terribly.

i think calling is ok here.

Standard call with an OESD. Raise? Fold ever?

in my opinion, on boards where you have a draw to what is probably not the nuts, you should tread very carefully. it is possible that you are only drawing to 6 outs, not 8. having said that, i call most of the time there, given the type of player you described.

He bets $1 into a pot of $1.45. I think raising is right here? If not why flat? Are we ever folding?

ok, so now one of the cards that you didn't really want to see hits, but now you also have a strong hand.

in this case, i like calling for pot control, and try to get to showdown. if you raise, hands that aren't the flush immediately get scared of the flush. we know he is a fish, but would he ever call a raise with a K? so really its sets and 2 pair hands that would call your raise, but even these would be pretty wary now.

further more, if you flat, it gives the villain an chance to continue with hands that you now crush, like AK, KJ, and sets.

What should I do if he reraises/shoves? I have $6.40 behind.

this is why flatting the turn is better i think. raising puts you in a really tough spot, because he could still shove over with both his sets/2pairs and his flushes, and its hard to guess which one is which.



up until the turn, i think you played it fine. on the river, if the board pairs, or another club comes, i would check fold. on all other river cards, i would prolly check call.


pot control is key here i think, because you are good a lot of the time, but if you check-raise the turn, you fold out most of his weaker range, or give him an opportunity to bluff with it.

[maccatak11]

Im flatting the turn and check/calling or check/shoving the river. if this player is fishy he might bluff on all streets, or continue this way with pair type hands, i think by raising the turn he only really continues with a set or a made flush, and their are probably more flushes in his range. If he flats your turn raise, then what are you doing on river. Shoving, check/shoving, check/calling?

[Brett Kay]

High VPIP means nothing if we don't know what he is raising like.

High VPIP with 0 PFR means that he sees a lot of flops but doesn't go further unless he has an agressive gambling streak.

If we go with a low PFR, then most likely he has hit his flush draw or has the same straight, check call, check call, river is check fold if 4th club/paired board. check call for nearly everything else.

If we go with a high PFR, with high agression, check call, check shove lines are good.

[trishan]

High VPIP means nothing if we don't know what he is raising like.

High VPIP with 0 PFR means that he sees a lot of flops but doesn't go further unless he has an agressive gambling streak.

If we go with a low PFR, then most likely he has hit his flush draw or has the same straight, check call, check call, river is check fold if 4th club/paired board. check call for nearly everything else.

If we go with a high PFR, with high agression, check call, check shove lines are good.

And if we have no stats? What is the general line to take against an unknown player.

[trishan]

in my opinion, on boards where you have a draw to what is probably not the nuts, you should tread very carefully. it is possible that you are only drawing to 6 outs, not 8. having said that, i call most of the time there, given the type of player you described.

in this case, i like calling for pot control, and try to get to showdown. if you raise, hands that aren't the flush immediately get scared of the flush. we know he is a fish, but would he ever call a raise with a K? so really its sets and 2 pair hands that would call your raise, but even these would be pretty wary now.

...raising puts you in a really tough spot, because he could still shove over with both his sets/2pairs and his flushes, and its hard to guess which one is which.

Thanks for the advice benny the cunt and I can see that flatting his turn bet might be the better option.

[Brett Kay]

If Short
Check call, check call, check shove.

if deep
Check call, check call, check call/shove depending on cards.

got to think of minimising your risk in case he does hit his flush, fullhouse. Whilst also trying to get the most value out of him.

Assuming he had his flush?

[trishan]

Assuming he had his flush?

Result:

Spoiler:

Yes. Twas dirty. K4cc

[Brett Kay]

Assuming he had his flush?

Result:

Spoiler:

Yes. Twas dirty. K4cc

If you want to play 5c/10c. if your trying to build a roll. Start shortstacking at $2 buy ins, take the decisions out of it. Think it ends up being around 12% of hands. There was a nice article i found about it.

Or otherwise, start playing $3 sit n go's, or mtt's to build it up, then start playing at 25c/50c. Just to reduce your tilt factor.

[bennymacca]

not a bad point brett

i found that i would do stupid stuff when i was playing at 10NL, because i didn't feel like it was worth anything.

i calculated how long it would take me to build up a decent roll at that level, and its a long long time.

At 25NL and 50NL, your losses hurt, and your wins are meaningful. if you have the means to deposit, i would start at these levels. if you dont, then SNGs and MTTs are prolly better.

thats my personal experience anyway