You're a Bunch of Factors

Many many ways of play here, we are all different beasts, so what do YOU do?

Give reasons if you want, or don't - it's up to you.

Note, early in tourney, no read, similar stacks, I'm loving my hand - how do I get the most chips from my opponent IN YOUR OPINION

Early in a $5 buy in tourney online

Blinds 15 / 30

Effective Stacks 3000.
Early Position Calls 30
Middle Position Calls 30
Late Position Calls 30
SB (Me, you, US) Holding 44 Raise to 150
BB Calls 150
EP Folds
MP Folds
LP Folds

(Pot now 390)
FLOP J 8 4 (woop woop) - rainbow

I (we) check
BB bets 250
I (we) call

(pot 890)
TURN 3 (making 4 different suits on the board)

I (we) check
BB bets 650
I (we) ???????????? (select from above)

Note - for simplicity sake lets assume if we see a river it is a blank

I think I am more concerned with what is the most popular response, rather than what is the most 'correct' response. Feel free to mention ranges and pot odds etc, but if you are not veteran posters - don't worry - just post what you would DO.

I probably bet the flop if we are trying to get most value out of our opponent here. On such a dry board we aren't folding out many hands in our opponents range (lets say pairs 55-TT, Ax, Kx, paint combinations) so i think a continuation bet for value is what we should have done.

Strangely, for someone who advocates bet-bet-bet in almost every hand discussion ( ) i am advocating the same here. Much easier for our villain to put us on a AK/AQ/TT type hand and raise us on any street - therefore we can get our stacks in easier.

I won't respond fully just yet, but I didn't take the river actions for the reason you stated.

I also think if you are discussing post flop play you should allow for actions to be decided and voted on from the flop; especially if you are talking about max value scenarios.

I feel that if he has nothing, he'll continue on the river (only way you'll get more out of him in this situation, he won't call a shove on turn with nothing...) if he has a semi decent hand (QJ?) he'll still prob lead (judging by the stakes), so i'll flat, check and wait for another bet either way.

If he has a strong hand, the same should happen.

Maccatak & Garth, please comment on the hand as played - at this point in the hand.

The Law - call, check - answer noted, thank you.

Anonymous posters - thank you for your selections.

If you put him on a bluff then call and try to get him to bluff the river, if you put him on a made hand that he will stack off with (AJ/KJ) then raise the turn and get it in.

Discussing just the turn and river is pointless if we are talking about post flop play in general. If you want more than a beginner discussion here we need to discuss the entire hand. FWIW im never raising 44 from the small blind into three limpers.

gmatical wrote:Maccatak & Garth, please comment on the hand as played - at this point in the hand.

I didn't Glenn, I actually made a suggestion that might create a more education discussion in regards to this hand.

And this is in the Hand Discussion thread so we can answer your questions and still discuss earlier streets action.

gmatical wrote:Maccatak & Garth, please comment on the hand as played - at this point in the hand.

The Law - call, check - answer noted, thank you.

Anonymous posters - thank you for your selections.

As played you have missed some extra value on the flop bet with a reraise.

As it stands you call ends up being a 2k pot. Fire a 750 bet on the river and see if he spews it off. Inducing the action.

If you call and push all in on river, they usually fold.

If you raise to 1300, he can easily find a fold only losing 1/3 of his stack.

FYI - for max value in these situations I like the following play.

Bet call the flop.
Check call the turn
Check raise the river

In most cases (against a level 1 thinker) you will get him to stack of with all top pair, two pair, mid pair and ace high hands.

gmatical wrote:Many many ways of play here, we are all different beasts, so what do YOU do?

Give reasons if you want, or don't - it's up to you.

Note, early in tourney, no read, similar stacks, I'm loving my hand - how do I get the most chips from my opponent IN YOUR OPINION

Early in a $5 buy in tourney online

Blinds 15 / 30

Effective Stacks 3000.
Early Position Calls 30
Middle Position Calls 30
Late Position Calls 30
SB (Me, you, US) Holding 44 Raise to 150
BB Calls 150
EP Folds
MP Folds
LP Folds

(Pot now 390)
FLOP J 8 4 (woop woop) - rainbow

I (we) check
BB bets 250
I (we) call

(pot 890)
TURN 3 (making 4 different suits on the board)

I (we) check
BB bets 650
I (we) ???????????? (select from above)

Note - for simplicity sake lets assume if we see a river it is a blank

I think I am more concerned with what is the most popular response, rather than what is the most 'correct' response. Feel free to mention ranges and pot odds etc, but if you are not veteran posters - don't worry - just post what you would DO.

Hmm interesting comments so far, there seems to be a bit of variety in the range of this villian, here are my thoughts....

It is a 5 dollar tourny
so we can assume there is at least a few competent players (i would like to add iso raising 44's OOP is terrible limp here for set value.what would you have done if you missed flop?...)

Its safe to assume this player does not know us thus does not know our range for raising in the SB. i am assuming that he is putting us on a AQ+ maybe AJ and QQ+ maybe JJ (as realisticly you should limp JJ and 1010) so his range for call here is pretty much any pair 77 - 1010 and maybe AJ+, this is assuming that he knows how to play (and this is the x factor of this hand) and he is in position. I think anything less then 77 he will prob fold or spew jam.

So for the flop.

(Pot now 390)
FLOP J 8 4 (woop woop) - rainbow

I (we) check
BB bets 250
I (we) call

i think this play is fine, but weather or not its the most +ev play is dependant on his play and style. i feel the only part of his range that he calls a flop Cbet consider you iso OOP is 1010, 99 , 88 and AJ i think he folds the rest of his calling range here to a cbet. Back to the hand as played after his bet i narrow his range to 1010,99,88. so a flats fine against his range as he is only improving his hand a small amount of time and a check raise will push him off the majority of this betting range and may induce a reraise with 88 which we dont want


(pot 890)
TURN 3 (making 4 different suits on the board)

I (we) check
BB bets 650
I (we) ???????????? (select from above)

the turn is interesting as played, i think he would do this with all of his flop betting range and as you can see with his bet he is really trying to shut down the pot (3/4 pot bet) which makes 88 less likley) i feel if we jam here, the only hand that calls us is 88 as the jam does not make sense to our villian and can only be a set and MAYBE AJ or an outright bluff (as the board is not coordinated and suited so we can be repping a semi bluff ) so a turn float is standard and the correct play.

as for river i would check 100% of the time and expect a jam from the villain which im happily calling as we have narrowed his range to hands that we dominate.

enjoy the double up and thank your stars that you flopped the nuts