888PL TC's to return to play in regular competition

[pmk]

i think my actions ruined the point scoring opportunities of the other players much more than any TC could.

do you agree?

yes... and this is why the "I've got to go" behaviour is actively discouraged.

[pmk]

it could quite easily be someone else not playing for points/prizes who busts you.

But they aren't just someone else. They're TCs who cannot achieve points in the general player leader boards thus their presence will affect the outcome.

Let’s suppose you have two tennis leagues; a men’s league and a tennis league. You are unable to have a fair and balanced competition if you mixed them up, i.e. men playing women but scoring points in different leagues. It could be done but you would have to include some way of normalising the points.

what do you think about my reasons for TC's possibly enhancing the integrity of the game pete?

Good points and I strongly agree. It really urks me when I sit at a table and just about every bad behaviour you could list happens (*cough* Emu Hotel *cough*). But one could argue the TCs aren't keeping a close enough eye on the game in the first place if thesae bad behaviours happen regularly.

Another poker league has assigned dealers for each table. These dealers are playing in the game but they deal every hand. Thus they have control over the table and no one rabbit hunts, goes through the muck etc.

This isn't the thread to discuss this in detail but your points are up there with the positives.

I think it will probably happen that TCs are allowed to play but Garth will have to pull a magic wabbit out of his butt to cover the integrity of the league and to make it worthwhile for the players.

[bennymacca]

yes... and this is why the "I've got to go" behaviour is actively discouraged.

my point was, the perceived concerns about integrity are minor compared to the actual play of a lot of other people.

Good points and I strongly agree. It really urks me when I sit at a table and just about every bad behaviour you could list happens (*cough* Emu Hotel *cough*). But one could argue the TCs aren't keeping a close enough eye on the game in the first place if thesae bad behaviours happen regularly.

you have mentioned twice now that bad things are happening on your table.

how come you haven't mentioned this to the TCs?
the TC's can't stand and watch every single table all of the time to make sure etiquette breaches dont happen, so it is up to YOU to bring it to the TC's attention.

Another poker league has assigned dealers for each table. These dealers are playing in the game but they deal every hand. Thus they have control over the table and no one rabbit hunts, goes through the muck etc.

this would certainly make the game go quicker, but there is a MASSIVE downside to this. people who are learning dont have the opportunity to shuffle, deal, cut down pots etc. if they never learn these basic skills, they will never be confident enough to take their game to the next level.

[pmk]

you have mentioned twice now that bad things are happening on your table.
how come you haven't mentioned this to the TCs?
the TC's can't stand and watch every single table all of the time to make sure etiquette breaches dont happen, so it is up to YOU to bring it to the TC's attention.

Which I have done, but as you say the TC can't watch every table. And for the TC to do anything about it they need to catch them in the act. And when informed of bad behaviour all the TC can do it keep an eye on them and hope they repeat offend.

I say something to the people involved and I get mixed reactions from outright aggression to “but we’re only having fun” to belligerent compliance to happy compliance.

[pmk]

this would certainly make the game go quicker, but there is a MASSIVE downside to this. people who are learning dont have the opportunity to shuffle, deal, cut down pots etc. if they never learn these basic skills, they will never be confident enough to take their game to the next level.

Yeah.. good point.
I’ve found the majority of people don’t want to take IT (IT = anything they do or use) to the next level.

Take cars for example. How many people who use cars know how to change a tire or change the oil? The majority just hop in and turn a key and that’s the DESIRED limit of their knowledge. Similarly with computers; how many computer users know how to swap out a hard drive or write a simple program? The majority simply push a button and load the software they’ve been taught to use.

The 80/20 rule would apply to poker players as it does anywhere else. 80 percent of players just want to play, while the other 20 percent want to look under the hood to make it run faster.

[bennymacca]

Similarly with computers; how many computer users know how to swap out a hard drive or write a simple program? The majority simply push a button and load the software they’ve been taught to use.

yes, but if we use this analogy, then other people dealing would be akin to sitting back and letting someone else work the computer for you. i think that shuffling and dealing and learning how to award a pot are basic skills that a poker player needs to learn, if they want to play in a live environment.

[rcon]

I think something being overlooked here is the fact TC's are only going to be invited back to play in the foundation games - challenge games will be off limits.

Players wishing to "chase points" with none of the those pesky "post flop" players are free to choose to do so. True, I have seen some godawful play (and a lack of respect) from TCs when playing in regular events, but a code of conduct and leader board would go someway to alleviating this.

I personally dislike challenges games as I can not sit with my mates. I choose not to frequent them as often - I don't see how the integrity of the "serious" money side of the competition is compromised when the TCs are excluded from this, and any one who thinks the integrity is being compromised is free to play in the part of the league where they feel their efforts are best rewarded.

edit: wow, that is all a bit disjointed. Points are all valid, but all over the shop!

[bennymacca]

I think something being overlooked here is the fact TC's are only going to be invited back to play in the foundation games - challenge games will be off limits.

Players wishing to "chase points" with none of the those pesky "post flop" players are free to choose to do so. True, I have seen some godawful play (and a lack of respect) from TCs when playing in regular events, but a code of conduct and leader board would go someway to alleviating this.

I personally dislike challenges games as I can not sit with my mates. I choose not to frequent them as often - I don't see how the integrity of the "serious" money side of the competition is compromised when the TCs are excluded from this, and any one who thinks the integrity is being compromised is free to play in the part of the league where they feel their efforts are best rewarded.

edit: wow, that is all a bit disjointed. Points are all valid, but all over the shop!

agree with this rcon, good points.

freeroll = fun
challenge game = somewhat more serious

[Des]

Just a thought, seeing as everyone is worried about the TC's causing players to miss out on points.

How about allowing TC's to play Foundation events, but at a max of 3 events per venue.

Based on a 12 week season (i'm pretty sure in 2010 it will be 12 week seasons) then a TC can only play there on average of 1 in every 4 weeks.

-or-

Another option is to designate TC friendly venues. Have some venues where TC's are welcome to play. If you don't want to play against a TC, play another venue.

[RedheadsRock]

There have certainly been some good points put forward on this issue.

Currently the TC's can play at Checkmates in the CBD on a Monday night, which from what I hear is a whole heap of fun (I am getting way too old to stay out late on a "school night" otherwise I would be there with bells on!)

So along with the Monday night, why not have 1 foundation event that the TC's can play in, in the South say on a Tuesday night, and 1 in the north on say a Wednesday night.

If they are to play, it would need to start as from the begininning of a new season to ensure that players do not get disgruntled if their points (and therefore leaderboard standing) are affected by being knocked out by a TC.