You're a Bunch of Factors

Hi,

When are cards deemed as mucked to a point of no return?

I was under the impression that cards are mucked when thrown towards the centre of the table and once they have been mucked they can't be unmucked (if that's a word lol) even if it was accidental.

Clarification would be muchly appreciated as we had a table of differences recently.

Thanks

that is also my understanding. ANY forward motion towards the centre of the table or the muck pile would be a muck in my book.

bennymacca wrote:that is also my understanding. ANY forward motion towards the centre of the table or the muck pile would be a muck in my book.

I've heard different. If the cards are easily retrievable, its not a muck.

The ruling I go by is that yes if they throw their cards forward the cards are deemed 'mucked'.
But until the cards actually hit the 'muck' the cards are still live, so if they are thrown forward and then quickly taken back, they are still live, but the player would be educated and receive warning as to trying to get a read as such

Depends on the circumstances surrounding the action and preceding actions surrounding the attempted muck.

In 90% of cases a hand is deemed muck when there is a legitimate forward movement of cards facedown towards the centre of the table or the come into contact with the muck.

In some circumstances it can be deemed that the cards made contact with the muck facedown but the player was attempting to table his hand at showdown.

Whitmee35 wrote:The ruling I go by is that yes if they throw their cards forward the cards are deemed 'mucked'.
But until the cards actually hit the 'muck' the cards are still live, so if they are thrown forward and then quickly taken back, they are still live, but the player would be educated and receive warning as to trying to get a read as such

ok, fair enough.

i guess you can get gather what their intentions are.

i did that as the casino once - it was a 3 way pot, and one person was all in pre. the other person folded on the turn, and i mucked my cards because i forgot that there was still another person in the hand, and i was allowed to turn my cards up because they were only halfway to the muck and easily recoverable, and it was obviousl that it was an honest mistake.

it they are trying to angle shoot then obv you would still muck them.

Thanks guys,
FYI the villain in question had done the same thing 10mins prior and was allowed to retrieve cards both times...and won both hands to rub it in.

Larx36 wrote:Thanks guys,
FYI the villain in question had done the same thing 10mins prior and was allowed to retrieve cards both times...and won both hands to rub it in.

If you want a legitimate ruling you need to provide more details of what occurred and the action surrounding this.

By the way, the be all and end all for this ruling is the TC on the night, and an official ruling can be sought from me but will not overturn any results.

bennymacca wrote:

Whitmee35 wrote:The ruling I go by is that yes if they throw their cards forward the cards are deemed 'mucked'.
But until the cards actually hit the 'muck' the cards are still live, so if they are thrown forward and then quickly taken back, they are still live, but the player would be educated and receive warning as to trying to get a read as such

ok, fair enough.

i guess you can get gather what their intentions are.

i did that as the casino once - it was a 3 way pot, and one person was all in pre. the other person folded on the turn, and i mucked my cards because i forgot that there was still another person in the hand, and i was allowed to turn my cards up because they were only halfway to the muck and easily recoverable, and it was obviousl that it was an honest mistake.

it they are trying to angle shoot then obv you would still muck them.

yeah have seen this situation a few times, and most times it is a genuine mistake.


ok slightly different one. one person raises the river and is called, showing ace high. as soon as they do this their opponent throw theirs cards face up on top of the muck, thinking they had lost and saying 'nice hand, you win', but they had missed the fact that they had bottom pair and the best hand. are the cards mucked or live?

if the cards are face up, then they speak - bottom pair wins