You're a Bunch of Factors

I have a question with chip ups. Usually we are "chipped up" not "chipped down" at each break (ie if we have 925 at the first break, this is chipped up to 1000 not chipped down to 900).

Last night something different happened when we got to the final table. Blinds were 3k/6k just before the final table was formed. Then when we returned from the break, blinds were 5k/10k. I had 11k and cards were dealt for each 1k we had. I'm unsure of how the process works after this but I ended up going down to 10k from 11k.

This just added to the frustration after I had 20k just 2 mins before the final table where I paid 6k BB then 3K SB. Just after the SB hand, the final table was called and I had to choose a card. This put me back on the BB after I'd just paid BB and SB the previous 2 hands. Just wondering if this is the usual "tournament procedure" or whether this is an NPL rule? Obviously what goes around comes around so it will be on the other foot next time, but just wondering what other people think of how the final table is formed?

I don't really know what you're complaining about - the new chip up rules on the final table or the fact you were placed into the BB straight away.

I don't understand the new chip up rules either, (any NPL staff members care to explain here?) but I don't like them. I don't see how its fair that one player has the chance to lose chips. Can't we just be chipped up like normal?

A chip race is an event that takes place in poker tournaments, especially those with an escalating blinds (such as Texas hold 'em), in which chips of denominations that are no longer needed (as the current and upcoming blinds are more easily played with larger chip values) are removed from play. This has the effect of reducing the number of physical chips in front of any player, and makes it easier for the players to count their stacks and their bets.

In a typical chip race:

All players color up their lesser-valued chips into greater denominations. For example, if the blinds have increased to a level where $5 chips are no longer needed to post blinds, each five $5 chips will be exchanged for a $25 chip. Players will temporarily keep any leftover chips that cannot be fully colored up to larger chips (less than 5 $5 chips in the above example).
All leftover chips are counted, and equivalent chips in the larger denomination are presented to the table. Continuing the example, if there are 15 $5 chips remaining among 6 players, 3 $25 chips are prepared. In the event the remaining smaller chips do not add up to a whole larger chip, an extra larger chip should be added as long as the leftover smaller chips total more than half a single larger chip.
Each player with leftover chips in the smaller denomination will receive one card for each chip. The cards are typically dealt face up, starting from seat one, to the dealer's left. Each player due to receive cards will receive all of his cards before the next player, rather than a "traditional" card deal; the player on the little blind, for example, who is due to receive three cards for his three chips, will receive all three of his cards before the big blind receives any.
The larger chips are issued to the players with the highest single cards showing (poker hands do not count). No player is issued more than one chip. Ties (cards of the same rank) are broken by suit, using the same bridge (ascending alphabetical) order of the suits: Spades are highest, followed by Hearts, Diamonds, and Clubs. All remaining lesser-value chips are removed from play.
A chip race cannot eliminate a player from the game. In the event a player's last smaller-denomination chips are removed from play as part of the chip race, he automatically gets one colored up chip if one is available. Any leftover colored up chips go to the winner(s) of the chip race as described above

In addition to lukes post,...

If we are at 5000-10000 dollar blinds then we need to get rid of the yellows, if say 3 players have 1 yellow they are instantly chipped up to 5000 each, thats a total of 15000 for 3000 in chips, that leaves and extra 12000 in chips on the table which players havent earned.

in the race theory if 3 players have 1 extra yellow then the total in is 3000 and thus a single 5000 chips is added to the table, the players then race for this chip.

This leaves only 2000 extra on the table as apposed to 13000. now to say its unfair that you are chipped down is somewhat true, but its basicly a gamble and sometimes your gonna win a race and sometimes loose, but to say that I lost a 1000 is less unfair then slapping 13000 extra on a table...

if you have more then 1 yellow chips then you have more chance to pull down the 5000 dollar chip, if multiple chips are added to the race each player can only win 1.

Hope this helps guys, I think the race is a good system, and if the time was given id rather see chips raced at all breaks

Cheers
-- Zemond

Thanks Luke,
Chip races are conducted at the 5000/10000 blind level.
We just found it too unfair when people were been chipped up 4000 for a 1000 chip. The chip race is the easiest and fairest way to conduct chip outs at this level.

In re-addition to that... if you play a tournament in a casino chip races are conducted for every denomination when they take it out of the tournament.

It's just too time consuming for the NPL to race off $25 and $100 chips as there are so many players left at that time.

Garth Kay wrote:We just found it too unfair when people were been chipped up 4000 for a 1000 chip. The chip race is the easiest and fairest way to conduct chip outs at this level.

I see your point, but how is it fair that players can lose chips? Yes, at the 5000/10,000 blind level a loss of (at most) 3000 isn't a huge loss, but its still a loss. Tonight, a player "lost" 3000 in a chip race, while another "lost" 1000.

We're chipped up at every other break, why does the action change at the final table? It should be chip races at every break or chip up's all night. All I'm after is some consistency.

Have you ever had anyone complain after being chipped up? For example, player A has 1000 and is chipped up to 5000, player B has 6000 and is chipped up to 10,000. I've never heard anyone complain about other players being chipped up at the final table. Its how the action works for the rest of the night, they know its to be expected.

I can understand bringing this system in, I just don't agree with players losing chips and having no say in the matter.

Ok let me put it this way.
You have struggled all night, finally make the final table, you have 15,000 exactly.
Another player has 11,000 but automatically gets chipped up to 15,000.
That player all of a sudden has an additional 4,000 more than he did at any time, we are not talking about chipping up 100 to 500, or 500 to 1000 but a massive denomination, more than your starting stack.
Now say said player moves all in, has three callers and triples up.
BANG! He/she now has 12,000 more than he would have originally. Huge difference.
The issue here is putting too many chips on the final table and it been severely advantageous for several players who begin to flaunt the rules, such as leaving 11,000 in the stack, knowing that they can shoot of a free 4000 bet before the final table or chip up and know that they will get that money back at the chip up.
Chip races are apart of all tournament structures and are conducted at casino's worldwide. It is the fairest system that can be put into place.

AceLosesKing, would you think it was fair if you worked hard all night to get a chip stack of 14,000 & get chiped up to 15,000 only to have the guy or girl next to you get chiped up from 11,000 to then be level with you on 15,000 for free ??? No !!! Chip Race makes it fair for everyone... You see it as losing but if your the one that gets lucky in the Chip Race then your gaining chips

I think its also a matter of, not being used to it, because we have always automatically chipped up players, you guys have grown accustom to it. I think if we introduced this right from the get-go, we wouldn't have a problem.

And with all the technical mumbo jumbo aside, in my example of 2000 being introduced to the table instead of 13000, put aside where these chips go (in race or chip up) wouldn't the 2000 version be fairer?