You're a Bunch of Factors

There was an interesting(read: mildly diverting) discussion at one of my tables at the Royal last night - I personally think they are wrong, but I wanted to get some other peoples opinions too.

Other persons theory: Even if everyone mucks their hand, you must show both your cards to claim the pot.

Reasoning: Rules state that to claim a pot, you must show both your cards.

Now this is quite clear in the rules for a showdown
v.) THE SHOWDOWN
1. To win any part of a pot, a player must show both of his cards faceup on the table, whether they were used in the final hand played or not.

However I've not read all the rules, and wasn't planning on doing it anytime soon. Slack I know, but hey, what are forums for?

Is there something obscure that we're all missing, or was he just being tetchy when someone bet him out of a pit?

SHOWDOWN = When 2 or more players are contesting a pot.

If everyone has mucked, it isnt classed as a showdown and thus the pot is yours. You don't have to show your cards unless you want to.

there is no way in hell you have to show your cards if noone pays to see them - IMHO he was definitely wrong about asking to see the cards.

a showdown is when someone calls a river bet, and in this case, they definitely have to show, obviously.

edit: des beat me to it

Wow Des, now you're a TA, you've suddenly learnt all the rules

rcon wrote:There was an interesting(read: mildly diverting) discussion at one of my tables at the Royal last night - I personally think they are wrong, but I wanted to get some other peoples opinions too.

Other persons theory: Even if everyone mucks their hand, you must show both your cards to claim the pot.

Reasoning: Rules state that to claim a pot, you must show both your cards.

Now this is quite clear in the rules for a showdown
v.) THE SHOWDOWN
1. To win any part of a pot, a player must show both of his cards faceup on the table, whether they were used in the final hand played or not.

However I've not read all the rules, and wasn't planning on doing it anytime soon. Slack I know, but hey, what are forums for?

Is there something obscure that we're all missing, or was he just being tetchy when someone bet him out of a pit?

Example:

Say there are 4 runners in the hand. I bet, and everyone folds. I don't have to show my hand.

Example:

Say there are 2 runners in the hand. I bet, and he folds. I don't have to show my hand (unless there is an earlier all in).

Example:

Say there are 2 runners in the hand. I bet, and he calls. I show my hand, he knows that I have him beat, so he can muck his hand if he wishes.

Edit: Its already been explained by both Des and benny the cunt. In all my examples, I am betting on the river.

Des Beaty wrote:SHOWDOWN = When 2 or more players are contesting a pot.

If everyone has mucked, it isnt classed as a showdown and thus the pot is yours. You don't have to show your cards unless you want to.

I was pretty sure at the table last night, however he insisted there was something to his point of view.

Note: There was no argument, it was just a discussion point. I'd bored of telling everyone how wonderful my play has been lately so we were looking for other things to talk about

AceLosesKing wrote: Example:

Say there are 2 runners in the hand. I bet, and he calls. I show my hand, he knows that I have him beat, so he can muck his hand if he wishes.

If you so wish ALK, you can ask to see the cards

Section 3. v) 5. Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that was eligible to participate in the showdown, even if the opponent’s hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.

Why you would want to I don't know. But I guess if there were 3 players in, and you thought Player B was dumping to Player A, you as Player C could request to see the cards.

Bacon wrote:

AceLosesKing wrote: Example:

Say there are 2 runners in the hand. I bet, and he calls. I show my hand, he knows that I have him beat, so he can muck his hand if he wishes.

If you so wish ALK, you can ask to see the cards

Section 3. v) 5. Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that was eligible to participate in the showdown, even if the opponent’s hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.

Why you would want to I don't know. But I guess if there were 3 players in, and you thought Player B was dumping to Player A, you as Player C could request to see the cards.

Ooooh, I did not know that. Cheers for that Bacon.

I guess you'd want to get some information on your opponent. What was he calling to the river on? Did he lay down a good hand, or just miss his straight draw?

I think there was some discussion regarding this recently in another thread. I remember Garth alluding to the fact this rule was misunderstood or used. I don't have to time to dig it up, but there was something about it recently if you're interested ALK

AceLosesKing wrote:Ooooh, I did not know that. Cheers for that Bacon.

I guess you'd want to get some information on your opponent. What was he calling to the river on? Did he lay down a good hand, or just miss his straight draw?

i asked this question a little while ago, because on most online sites you can see the mucked-at-showdown cards.

garths reply was that you can, but basically only if you think they are cheating - doing it to get the information you are after is unethical, and might even get u kicked out of casinos.