give country people a chance

[Garth Kay]

Donk and Partner,

I struggle to understand the concept of your posts, but I believe it runs something like this:

"I have a problem with a contractor, they make life difficult for us at poker and he/she has had this problem before. I am aware of this and I have decided to do nothing.

Also NPL is going down the gurgler with me at it's helm, especially in the last 6 months that I have moved to Victoria, all of the promotions and ideas implemented are extremely negative. I do not listen to players and I implement whatever I want irrespective of player's wishes."

I think I have covered most of the issues:
1.) Send and email with your allegations of inappropriate behavior and unethical behaviour that you believe some contractors are conducting themselves in. I will not do anything with unsubstantiated slander bought up on a forum. I also repeat this is the first time anything of this sort has being bought to my attention.
2.) Make whatever comments you want about my lack of leadership skills or the performance of NPL. Your opinion is entitled but in this case means very little to me.
I now spend a lot of time on this forum (again) discussing many issues with players and I will always open discussion topics on future promotions or ideas. I am not going to go into too much detail but the forum was not my responsibility nor was the creation of promotions and their communication.
If you do not like the direction NPL is taking and cannot put your thoughts across in a constructive manner without insulting myself or throwing slanderous allegations around on a public forum before bringing them to the attention of NPL head office, then you are quite free to play in any other competition of your choosing.

[Donk]

Queen9
THANKS.
To say that I was very upset and let my emotions get the better of me is a under statement.
as you now I am very passionate about poker and play all the time
Sorry if you can't understand me as I was verey upset. .

[Garth Kay]

So out of everything I had written in the response all you could take away from it was the fact that I corrected her on my use of the phrase "a grain of a salt."

Nothing in regards to this being the first time I have heard of misconduct by contractors at an NPL event.

The fact that I do take all of Rosemary's comments and feedback very seriously, yet she has never discussed with me staff behaviour at Hoppers.

Nor the fact that these are allegations were never discussed with me before you came on to a public forum to discuss them and then yet you insult me several times.

I will not apologise for my comments and I see no reason to apologise, the comments were not harsh but truthful statements of fact. And although many players on here would disagree with your comments in regards to my abilities, you are entitled to your opinion.

[queen9]

Hi Brett, I gather your post was related to the posts coming from Victoria. If that is the case, perhaps a little background would help you understand what is going on, as Garth has only been with us a few months and I know he has taken the time to patiently respond to my emails and queries, but he has also been extremely busy.

It has been made known that Garth is responsible for the upbringing of npl in s.a. and it appears from the continual praise, that he has done a great job. he took it from nothing, to where it is today.

the problem with victoria is that we were already here, and Garth came in and between him and others in positions of power, changed things to the detriment of many players. In an effort to explain how the changes were affecting players, meetings were held at npl h.q. and we were told of things that would happen and change and they have not. In fact, we have and are still losing a lot of what we used to play for.

And there is an issue at a local venue, not the venue's fault though, and some players chose not to play last sunday night, but instead, play a home game.... which is their choice. this is an issue that has been kept pretty quiet for fear of repercussions - we have seen the repercussions affect other players who speak up .. but the kettle has boiled and some players have had enough of going to poker and being treated and spoken to in a way not befitting a club member or any person.

Whilst complaints have previously been submitted by various players, to date, minimal appears to have been done as the issue still remains. In fact, the players that complained several months ago, were all named to the person concerned and it appears further intimidation continues.

To say we can go play elsewhere is not entirely what we want to do. and to say that everything is negative is not correct either. but to date, nothing that we have been 'promised' has come to fruition and players are getting very frustrated. we are all passionate about our poker and it was Garth who kept telling them (and via the td's) to get on the forum and post their thoughts ... and that is what they are doing.

In as far as prizes and prizepools, if they were never there to start with, we would never have missed them. when I play online, I play for free, the glory far outweighs anything else. but the prizepool is there and although there is an issue about its division, it is not by far, the main issue to us.

[queen9]

Hi Garth ... as previously stated to Brett in my last post, it appears that you have done a great job in s.a., taking them from nothing to where they are today ... the posts all indicate this by their words of praise.

any insults made towards you are not intended as 'insults' to you, they are expressions of passion from players from victoria. please remember that most of the people in the forum are from s.a., this appears to be some of the first posts from vic. as we have not had the access to, or not been able to get onto, or did not know about the forum.

please also note, that the issue surrounding the problem at hoppers, has been brought up twice already - and both times, the players who openly did this, suffered more by way of repercussions from the person who is the centre of this issue.

it has come to the point now, whereby the players concerned, and I would need to take my socks and shoes off as well to count them, decided that if they were not going to be listened to, they would not play, or would at least minimalise the times they played with this person present.

It is unfortunate that it has had to go this far before someone realises there is a REAL issue and problem, but let me assure you that none of the comments you have heard so far, or will read in my upcoming letter (not for public information) are slanderous, they are all true and correct accounts.

Several of the players wanted to start a petition about this, and unfortunately, I stopped it as I did not think it was appropriate. Perhaps I should have let them do it, then you would have learned about this issue earlier. But now it is out in the open, let's get to the bottom of it.

Please understand that earlier this week I spent 2 days at the hospital and I am still not completely back on my feet, but by the time mid week comes, I should be right and ready to provide any information you or Garry require to hopefully resolve this issue and extinguish some others.

[Garth Kay]

the problem with victoria is that we were already here, and Garth came in and between him and others in positions of power, changed things to the detriment of many players. In an effort to explain how the changes were affecting players, meetings were held at npl h.q. and we were told of things that would happen and change and they have not. In fact, we have and are still losing a lot of what we used to play for.

I was never apart of these meetings, I believe these were conducted at a time before I even worked for the company. These problems you speak of and the promises made to correct them, can you please enlighten me as to these?

In regards to the player committee, this will still go ahead in the new year, I plan on having at least two representatives from every region take part in a bi monthly meeting where we do discuss everything NPL.

What exactly have you lost and are losing a lot of for what you used to play for?

And there is an issue at a local venue, not the venue's fault though, and some players chose not to play last sunday night, but instead, play a home game.... which is their choice. this is an issue that has been kept pretty quiet for fear of repercussions - we have seen the repercussions affect other players who speak up .. but the kettle has boiled and some players have had enough of going to poker and being treated and spoken to in a way not befitting a club member or any person.

I must say that what has occurred previously is no reflection upon myself as I may and often do conduct myself in a different manner to my predecessor when it comes to many things NPL. Rosemary, this is what frustrates me, you often say that players will speak to you about many things that bother him and I was receiving an email off you at least once per week at some stage, but not once did you ever mention to me about problems at Hoppers, until now when it was raised in a public forum. How am I meant to rectify these issues if I am not alerted to them nor should I be insulted because nothing has been done about these allegations.

Whilst complaints have previously been submitted by various players, to date, minimal appears to have been done as the issue still remains. In fact, the players that complained several months ago, were all named to the person concerned and it appears further intimidation continues.

Read my response to previous posts, how am I expected to do anything when noone notifies me? I would be very careful about the comments you declare on a public forum though. There can be a case for defamation or slander, I suggest emailing or send me a PM.

To say we can go play elsewhere is not entirely what we want to do. and to say that everything is negative is not correct either. but to date, nothing that we have been 'promised' has come to fruition and players are getting very frustrated. we are all passionate about our poker and it was Garth who kept telling them (and via the td's) to get on the forum and post their thoughts ... and that is what they are doing.

What have you been promised? Explain to me thoroughly what you were promised? So this is my fault that previous comments and promises were made to you and noone has informed me of these and they have not been followed through with?


I am sorry about your health issues Rosemary and i hope you get well soon. But please take the time to answer all of my questions in the above post. There is very little I can do when I am unsure of the promises made and the fact that you all feel like you are losing out.

I would also like to add, that I handle situations with staffing matters in an entirely different manner. Please email me with previous occurrences and current issues. There will be no repercussions on this and all matters will be handled with great discretion.

[Brett Kay]

Rosemary,

I have worked through two different poker companies, and also i have a hospitality background. Customer service is important to me. When i started work for NPL, i was asked to go out to a venue, and to gather some information about how it is being run. I went out there, wrote an email to Carlos about what i had seen, and one TD either resigned or let go, and a regional operator left the company. This was one of the bigger venues in my region.

From my personal experiences with NPL, is that there have been a lot of interactions between players and TDs. Which have formed precedents in rulings and judgements which act to the detriment of all. Betting out of turn was a big one, Players not knowing what to call on the all in, completing blinds, Side pots. These are true rules of poker, and not one player could give me the same answer as another player. I was told that the minimum reraise had to be the size of the big blind or greater, yet when there is already a raise of 500 at 25/50 then a raise of 50 is correct. Which as any player should know is a nuisance raise and does nothing for the overall information in the game.

So whether or not what Garth is doing is correct or not is irrelevant. People have to learn that there is an order to things. How many times have you disagreed in front of a TD to a crowd? If there is no respect for TD's then that will make our job harder any given day of the week. People will see someone do it, and they think they can do it and it all goes from there. Senior players have to learn this, pull the TD aside later and just say, look the correct decision should have been this, not this. I have apologized to players when i have made mistakes and have moved on from it. They have always respected the decision and we have gone on from there. Players have also come up to me and told me if i had done something wrong. It is the only way we can grow if there is communication.

As for Victoria being there First, yes it has, was it run to the standards to which i as a poker player would like it to aspire to, definitely not. There was a lot of things going on that i was stamping out in my regions. Chip theft, stamp theft, Poker passports were all being used to Advantage many a player. 4 people were banned for cheating, one of them i considered to be a top bloke. But in all fairness, emotions can't enter it when deciding a decision. Same as when being a TD.

I would like to be able to sit down at a game, have a fun social night, playing some cards against good people or players, not worrying about the Dollars being spent, the dollars out there to be won, or anything else. Pretty much have an enjoyable night out, Without worrying whether a player is cheating, or whether that person who was passed that extra $25 or $100 for the chip ups is going on to win it. Because bottom line, that is cheating, you are giving someone an advantage in the game. It might be between mates but it still is. It might seem small, but over time could evolve into sneaking an ace into your sleeve, or putting a 500 chip in your pocket for next weeks game. And then it gets bigger.

Now to the point of all this. One of my staff quit on me around 2 months ago. This is in Karratha, she was very resistant to change of any form. Whether it was good or not, she didn't care because it wasn't her way. I changed my wine section around, into a good plan to showcase all the varieties of wines. I disappeared for three days down in Perth for a meeting. I came back and she had changed it all back. I wanted to trial this for a couple of months, 4 hours planning and rearranging because one staff member out of 10 didn't like it.

That lack of respect, by not even giving it a worthwhile trial, and not even consulting with me if they could change it back. They crossed the line. My 2IC got in trouble as well for this. It was only one time, but one time is enough for them to think they can get away with it.

So even though changes might be big, might not be enjoyable. You have to give the benefit of the doubt and the time it deserves to reap all the rewards.

[queen9]

hi Garth ... there was a time not long ago, where we did not know who was in charge of what and so we were reluctant to go to anyone with our problems. this is why it is to the stage it is right now.

I think there have been a lot of things said on the forum that should not have been said and rest assured, I will foward information as soon as I have had the chance to speak to some others. I do not want to provide their information and/or details without asking them first.

Most vics don't know that Carlos resigned and departed this week and as previous complaints have been handled by him, it appeared that future ones would have also.

as far as what we have lost, this I will detail to you in an email.

And as much as most of this may not have been your fault, you are now the person these things are directed as - you are the one with all the say - and not many players know what you and/or your predecessors have done or responsible for.

Having said that, let me say this ... now that some emotions have erupted and things are out in the open, I am going to tend to my visitors - play some poker and hope that the passion we have for this game is obvious to all. I will email you in the next day or two after I have a rest from all this. Q9

[queen9]

Brett, just briefly, I have only queried a TD's decision in public once. it was after he over-rode a decision made by the TA, which in effect, caused me to miss out on $1450 worth of prizes. The decision change the outcome of a hand and cost me the regional prize of a night at the casino, and dropped me down the state leaderboard by $800.

On every other occassion, I publicly support each and every TD and you can ask any one of them ... as I do not believe in undermining their authority.

gotta go, there is poker to play and I am about to be folded.. lol ...

have a good night all.

[krunchie]

let me explain guys ... D.O.N.K is a very passionate person and from what I am reading, he appears to be very upset. His wife posted something on here, based on what they have been reading over the last few days and it appears that she was told here in the forum, that she misquoted something.

D.O.N.K is supporting his wife and it appears he has let his emotions get the better of him, cos he doesn't usually say much, yet here he is, going to town... hence the reason his posts are so hard to read .. and while his wife has never played, you can't keep D.O.N.K away, he is a regular.

try reading between the lines ... or changing the letters around ... and D.O.N.K, settle down, preview things before you submit them and take your time ... while I appreciate the support, poker is supposed to be fun, and we WILL have fun, because we always do. Q9

Queen and donk

you are putting your thoughts and arguments on a public fourm.

Therefore your main objective is to have the public who read this forum understand your thoughts and arguments.

If you wish only one person too see them ( ie garth ) then please personal mesage him and leave the rest of us out of it.

By putting it up here you are asking your poker bretheren and peers to read your posts, and in some cases ( ok most ) judge it.

As i said before i am sure the reason you are posting is because you wish us to understand your point of veiw.

if this is the case then lets get one thing clear. It is your responsibility to craft your posts in such a way that you get your point of view across to us.

It is not our responsibility to read between the lines, nor would you want us to if you actually met us.

Just tell us what you really want us to see and leave the baggage at the door.