I was kicked out of pub poker game!

[JMACK007]

Ernie, one question. Was the small stack all in and did the blinds cover his all in. If the answer is yes then why was there no show down? I think this is what everyone wants to know.

Here's the answer...

so ok utg wins his amount from both sb and bb, sb wins his side pot and change given to bb...

[bennymacca]

This is the part that could be called collusion, and really the TD should be on top of it and not allow BB to fold if the BB is greater than the allin amount (it's 3 handed, the TD should be in charge of all action at this stage), even if it is done out of turn....

Nothing against Ernie, but it seems a cut and dry situation.

collusion is all about intent though, and that is something that really only the TD and the person who made the fold can comment on. What may look like collusion could be a simple case of the person just being an idiot. or tired or drunk or view obscured by the dealer or a misread of chipstacks, or a multitude of other either dumb or genuine mistakes that could otherwise look like collusion.

i am not saying it wasnt collusion, i am just saying that it is very hard to comment on, even from the rail.

[JMACK007]

That's true benny the cunt, and I'm not saying it was collusion either, just that it could be seen as collusion. The main point is that Ernie should have been on top of the situation and not allowed BB to fold.

[Paul]

You for real?

Since when is not being aware of whats happening in the game a thing the TD should be controlling?

Forward action is fold, whether its 3 handed or not... you cant just say
"You're big blind, here is your hand back, silly you almost mucked your cards outta turn cause you werent concentrating on the game!"

That means that technically someone throwing enough chips in to call BB but infact there is an all in, is entitled to take it back cause they weren't concentrating.

Gimme a break, Poker is a game of 'skill', If your stupid enough to muck your hand cause you werent skillfull enough to wait till your turn, you DONT get benefit of the doubt !!

Control was taken when those cards were taken into the muck as intended, a TD that let him take them back is the one that should be questioned over 'control' !!

[madali]

My question is why instead of being put up on the forum was this not sent to support for investigation. It is not that difficult, the email is just as accessible as as this forum and to me would be the second step in dispute resolution (the first being questioning the ruling with the TD which did not resolve the issue hence step 2).

Now that it has been put on the forum here is my opinion. Not matter how well written the opening post was it has already been shown to be inaccurate in regards to the side pot

Second....the correct pot was awarded to all in player with side pot awarded to correct player...so 200k???? did you actually just pull that figure from the air????

Stop right there. You are now backing up my story that it was an all-in situation by saying there is a sidepot.
Why wasn't there a showdown?

( I think the above question has been answered)
The remainder of the recollection of the night also remains in contention for example who pushed all in was it the UTG player who pushed all in or did UTG limp and then it was sb who reraised? was BB the big stack or was it SB? Did the BB fold out of turn or in Turn? Is it forseeable that a player would act out of turn? As the opening poster has already missed that a side pot was created is it not possible that his has missed alot more? Do I know the answer to these questions? Well I can answer that no because I was not there. All I can say is that if my intergrity was questioned I would be as angry as Ernie and the player who were accused of cheating.

I do not really know Ernie. He has been TD at finals I have played and on one occassion when I played at Hoppers. What I can say is in that capacity of TD he has been polite, professional and knowledgable. I find it disguisting that his reputation was brought into question without the benifiet of an investigation first.

Again this is just my opinion

[666HARPS666]

Okay Ernie is a man of integrity & would in No way allow any collusion, He is fair & just & would not be Biased in any form. To all those that are making assumptions on Ernies' character or that he would allow such things to happen, Do not know him & in my opinion this thread should be locked.
& yeah he is a TD as well as a friend but If I stuffed up the same rules would apply to me as any tom, dick or harry.

[David]

Besides the original post - I'm not quite sure who else is accusing Ernie of anything.
No need to get defensive for no reason.

Asking questions is allowed.

[warboat]

I call BS on Ernie's version of the story.
His version of the story is extremely low on plausibility.
He states that there was a side pot for SB and change for BB. This implies the shortstack on the BTN (UTG 3 handed) has less than 1 smallblind (which I agree with). For this story to be true, BB not only has to fold out of turn (ridiculous as he has a MASSIVE stack to call a sub-SB all-in), but SB has to fold AFTER knowing BB folded out-of-turn when his posted SB covers the shortstack's all-in as well! How likely is that???!!!!
This guy on the BB qualified for the state S/F. He is not THAT retarded that he folded his BB. Ernie remembers the action but does not remember a lot of the details like blind levels or stacks? A lot of really weird incredible things had to occur in rather incredible order and fashion for Ernie's version of the story to be plausible. The reason it is not plausible and has holes in it is because it is not accurate.
I soul read that Ernie has consulted his peers at 888 management and now realise he was wrong about the forward motion muck and thus has to think of a way to explain the incident where his incorrect interpretation of the muck rules has little bearing. Yet he doesn't realise this version actually has MORE elements of collusion and even more dealer incompetence than my version of the story.
Where Ernie's story differs to mine is that the short stack was not on the BTN. The shortstack was on the BB.
NOBODY ACTED OUT OF TURN!
The SB raised after BTN limped and Ernie pointed out that the SB went ape at me and told me to sit down and play his hand and that was because I had a go at him for making the retarded raise in that spot. Ernie you remembered and mentioned that he had a go at me and I had a go at him. If your story was right, I would have also had a go at the other player for folding to the shortstack all-in, but that didn't happen.
I can easily recall this as the very hand prior to this was where Alex got busted out in 4th. Alex was on the direct right of the shortstack and got stacked by the man on Alex's direct right. In this hand, Alex was UTG and first to act. He was 2nd in stacks and open shoved Ax5x. It folded around to the BB (chipleader) and BB picked up his cards, sighed a bit and held the cards in the air for the man behind him to see. The man behind him then said "you probably should call, you have a ticket anyway". Alex immediately complained about the man behind influencing the action. After a few more moments of lamenting, BB cut out the required chips and placed it in to call and tabled QdTd. Flop was KJx and gasps from those watching. The 9 then fell to make Alex drawing dead.
The guy with QdTd then became the SB with a MASSIVE stack as Alex was 2nd in stacks prior to this hand. After Alex busted out, the shortstack became BB. And that is when this ridiculous last hand occured.
I remind Ernie that he specifically said that forward motion is a muck and it was in the rules. The proof is his friend Harp's insistent post on Ernie's behalf about this. I'm sure that he now knows better.
I don't have any malice towards Ernie. I joke with him all the time! He even ate my fat chips on that friday night right off my dinner plate without asking and I laughed! We joke about the pocket fours and I was the one that kept saying OB1 Kenobi told me to "USE THE FOURS!" and "may the FOURS be with you!" which I noticed is now in Ernie's signature.
Ernie, I don't have a problem with you personally. I do have problems with you as a TD on that friday night. You f4rk3d it up BAD! I tried to help and you went apesh17 on me!
You have a very tilty nature and this is not the first time you went bananas at me. A couple of weeks ago in the $70 terminator at Tigers Clubhouse, Justin Ghattas and I were trying to negotiate a deal at the final table and you were especially tilty that night after having your KK stacked by my friend's 88 and then you went ape at your GF for raise folding 88 when she should have called. You killed the deals and threatened me with disqualification if I tried to make any more deals. I was chipleader at that point when I tried to offer a deal where we reduced the bubble from $250 to $100 which is sensible and beneficial to all players at that final table. But for some reason you snapped at me and killed the dealing which was unfair.
Don't try to dig deeper holes for yourself with this incident from Melton. You were very wrong and you need to man up and take it.

[666HARPS666]

You are a COMPLETE TOSSER!!! none NONE of my posts are on Ernies' behalf TOOL.

I call BS on Ernie's version of the story.

I remind Ernie that he specifically said that forward motion is a muck and it was in the rules. The proof is his friend Harp's insistent post on Ernie's behalf about this. I'm sure that he now knows better.
I don't have any malice towards Ernie. I joke with him all the time! He even ate my fat chips on that friday night right off my dinner plate without asking and I laughed! We joke about the pocket fours and I was the one that kept saying OB1 Kenobi told me to "USE THE FOURS!" and "may the FOURS be with you!" which I noticed is now in Ernie's signature.
Ernie, I don't have a problem with you personally. I do have problems with you as a TD on that friday night. You **** it up BAD! I tried to help and you went apesh17 on me!
You have a very tilty nature and this is not the first time you went bananas at me. A couple of weeks ago in the $70 terminator at Tigers Clubhouse, J G and I were trying to negotiate a deal at the final table and you were especially tilty that night after having your KK stacked by my friend's 88 and then you went ape at your GF for raise folding 88 when she should have called. You FORBID the deals and threatened me with disqualification if I tried to make any more deals. I was chipleader at that point when I tried to offer a deal where we reduced the bubble from $250 to $100 which is sensible and beneficial to all players at that final table. But for some reason you snapped at me and killed the dealing which was unfair.
Don't try to dig deeper holes for yourself with this incident from Melton. You were very wrong and you need to man up and take it.

NO MALICE? WTF?.
The bloke folded out of turn just go away you crown dealer tool. Your story is changing every day.
IF you are on the Rail SHUT THE F UP & don't argue when you think you know what is going on. If you are upsetting players & the TD SHUT THE F UP or don't play 888pl again.

p,s. Ernies' signature has been that for about 2 years now.

[warboat]

Harps, you hung yourself with the first few posts in this thread. the proof is all there.