I was kicked out of pub poker game!

[Caleb]

So don't even attempt to detect any efforts to collude
simply "sorry mate, can't fold, flip it over!"

Conspiracy theorist much.

Short of players admitting they are colluding, what you like the dealer to do?

Mistakes do happen, we tend to give players the benefit of the doubt.

[JMACK007]

So don't even attempt to detect any efforts to collude
simply "sorry mate, can't fold, flip it over!"

Exactly

[JMACK007]

**I'll admit I got stacks confused between BB & BTN earlier.

I must say, I am lucky to play most of my poker with two of SA's best TDs, Russ Learmonth & Steve Pope. Steve actually has a copy of the international rules with him at all games, and I have seen him produce it on many occasions. There is no way that either of these guys would allow this situation to occur.

From my reading, BTN limped, SB shoved, BB is allin for less than a SB, BTN folded, SB folded out of turn?. Is this correct? If so it looks even more like collusion than I first thought.

In that situation, SB cards should be tabled and the board run out...

[Caleb]

**I'll admit I got stacks confused between BB & BTN earlier.

I must say, I am lucky to play most of my poker with two of SA's best TDs, Russ Learmonth & Steve Pope. Steve actually has a copy of the international rules with him at all games, and I have seen him produce it on many occasions. There is no way that either of these guys would allow this situation to occur.

From my reading, BTN limped, SB shoved, BB is allin for less than a SB, BTN folded, SB folded out of turn?. Is this correct?

In that situation, SB cards should be tabled and the board run out...

That's warboat's version. Ernie's version is completely different.

If you're calling out Ernie's "mistake" based on warboat's version (which I think you are) you might want to back-track and re-read mate.

[JMACK007]

That's warboat's version. Ernie's version is completely different.

If you're calling out Ernie's "mistake" based on warboat's version (which I think you are) you might want to back-track and re-read mate.

Yeah, ok, I went back to the orig post, that is what confused me. So BTN is short stack with less than SB, shoves & BB folds out of turn, then SB folds. In that situation, it should still be BB hand exposed against BTN and run the board...

[Caleb]

That's warboat's version. Ernie's version is completely different.

If you're calling out Ernie's "mistake" based on warboat's version (which I think you are) you might want to back-track and re-read mate.

Yeah, ok, I went back to the orig post, that is what confused me. So BTN is short stack with less than SB, shoves & BB folds out of turn, then SB folds. In that situation, it should still be BB hand exposed against BTN and run the board...

Why?

[JMACK007]

because it is an allin situation. The BB cannot muck as the rule clearly states that they are both "Allin" (i.e. BTN has "called" allin and the BB already has enough chips in the pot to cover him). SB is folded because he didn't call the BB, which is the minimum for him to play the hand. BB cannot fold as he has been called by the allin player, and the rule clearly states that his hand must be exposed....

[Caleb]

because it is an allin situation. The BB cannot muck as the rule clearly states that they are both "Allin" (i.e. BTN has "called" allin and the BB already has enough chips in the pot to cover him). SB is flded because he didn't call the BB, which is the minimum for him to play the hand. BB cannot fold as he has been called by the allin player, and the rule clearly states that his hand must be exposed....

The rule in question is when the BB is last to act. He was not last to act in this scenario.

Does that change anything?

[666HARPS666]

fold out of turn is that not like betting out of turn? still stands. ~ : { >

[JMACK007]

The rule in question is when the BB is last to act. He was not last to act in this scenario.

Does that change anything?

I don't think so, as allowing that situation to take place clears the way for collusion. If it wasn't the last hand of the tourney, then clearly the BB would be sat out for a period of time, but the hand would have to run out first....