Topic 1. Calculating Outs.

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AJG
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Re: Topic 1. Calculating Outs.

Postby AJG » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:25 pm

I know this topic has seen any action in a while, but I assume people still read the OP (they should cos its good - hey that rhymes!).
One thing I would add to that is the concept of 'Discounting Outs', which also comes back to reads to some degree.

By way of example:
YOU: Kh Tc
Flop: Qd Js 7d
Against, say, 2 opponents in a preflop raised pot (they min-raised from LP and you were the BB is why you called a raise with KTo ;) )

So, as you describe, you have 4 Aces and 4 9s which make your straight.

You make a continuation or feeler bet of 1/2 pot, both opponents call. You might figure the first player has already connected, but you put the 2nd caller on a diamond flush draw.
So now you DON'T want the Ad or 9d as that will make your opponents flush, so you need to discount your outs by 2.
Or you know the player well enough that he/she wouldn't chase the flush unless it was the nut flush, so you figure the Ad is one of his hole cards....
Maybe even your 1st caller is a tight player who would only call with top pair-top kicker, so he has an Ace... (although he should be raising then, but lets put him in the tight-passive box)

Also (OK so I have 2 things to add) a slight improvement on your shortcut method of calculating the percentage chance of hitting your outs:
With turn & river to come: OUTS x 4 + 2 %
On the river : OUTS x 2 + 1 %
(Maybe I'm pedantic, but it is slightly more accurate :ugeek: )

HERE is a Scribd iPaper copy of a decent Poker Math book. Definitely worth a read for beginners.
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Re: Topic 1. Calculating Outs.

Postby bennymacca » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:37 pm

nice post

lol @ +2% on turn - looks like im gonna have to make that raise 1025 instead of 1000 to push you off LOL

seriously though, when chasing straights and flushes, a good estimation of implied odds is much more important than pot odds

if you are both deep stacked, and a dude pots it, and you just know he has aces, and that he never ever folds aces, then i would always chase a flush or straight draw even though there aren't correct pot odds
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Re: Topic 1. Calculating Outs.

Postby bennymacca » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:38 pm

by the way AJG, you were the one that i hit my first royal against right?

that was pretty cool dont you think? :D
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Re: Topic 1. Calculating Outs.

Postby AJG » Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:58 pm

bennymacca wrote:by the way AJG, you were the one that i hit my first royal against right?

that was pretty cool dont you think? :D


When did this happen? I dont remember bein done by a royal?

And you got a point about implied odds etc, but that wasnt the topic of the OP so i didnt mention anything about it (care to make a post about that topic Brett?)
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Re: Topic 1. Calculating Outs.

Postby Scotty » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:00 pm

There's a screen shot of it somewhere, from memory :)

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Re: Topic 1. Calculating Outs.

Postby bennymacca » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:28 pm

AJG wrote:When did this happen? I dont remember bein done by a royal?


you had just got done by that 46 flush, and we were on a 5/10 cash table at the same time, chatting
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Re: Topic 1. Calculating Outs.

Postby Brett Kay » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:02 am

AJG wrote:
bennymacca wrote:by the way AJG, you were the one that i hit my first royal against right?

that was pretty cool dont you think? :D


When did this happen? I dont remember bein done by a royal?

And you got a point about implied odds etc, but that wasnt the topic of the OP so i didnt mention anything about it (care to make a post about that topic Brett?)


Was going into implied odds into number 5. But sort of got sidetracked with work.
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