TIPS -- NOT Strategy Article

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AJG
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TIPS -- NOT Strategy Article

Postby AJG » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:16 am

OK so I thought I might try my hand at writing an 'better poker' article, but not one based on strategy or math etc. There probably won't be anything new here for seasoned players, but for those reasonable new to the felt I hope you get something out of it :D

The first 2 points are exclusively for live poker. I have introduced a few 'onliners' to live poker, and seen plenty of new players come to various games, and these are things I have noticed they could do to improve results.
This is based on my experience in 888PL and non-888PL buyin games alike. And from watching some Pros when I was a dealer many a year ago (although Manilla was the closest game to Holdem I dealt, there are some things universal to Poker and flop games) These are just a few observations Ive made, including points 3 & 4 which are the only parts that deal directly with game play (this mainly at 888PL freerolls). Take it or leave it as you see fit.

  1. Don't look at your hole cards preflop before its your turn to act.
    Firstly, observant players will be looking for tells from players as they look at their cards, like immediately reaching for chips (loading up) etc, and you cant give away information you don't have yourself (yet).
    Secondly, this allows YOU to be more observant of your opponents.
    Thirdly, this is something I only notice more knowledgable/experienced players do, and I will tend to initially give more respect to such players until (unless) they show otherwise. It may make you seem more experienced than you actually are. ;)
    1 person I mentioned this to responded that he needs time to think what his action will be. Well, a) you can still take time to think once its your turn, you don't have to have it all worked out by the time its your turn to act. and b) Especially the later your position, or if your in the blinds, your action may be dependant on what the rest of the table does anyway, so you might have to reconsider if say your the BB and had worked out what you were going to do.
    This also helps you not to act out of turn accidentally.
  2. Don't look at the cards as the flop comes out.
    Watch the other players involved in the hand (even if your not).
    Quite often players make subtle, fleeting facial expressions indicating how the flop effected them, look down at or touch their chips. A quick small smile when the hit TPTK or trips, a quick frown if they don't like it. You'd be surprised how much a lot of players give away in their immediate reaction to the board cards. Likewise with the turn and river. Obviously you cant be attentive to everyone in multiway pots, so focus on the player (or 2) you think might be strongest based on any observation preflop, and any betting/raising so far. You don't need to study them closely, you only have to see their initial reaction; a few seconds at most before you look at the board and see how it plays for you. And not all the time, mostly on hands where you might be vulnerable or have a monster and hoping they improve.
  3. Take a moment to think about your bet size if you have chosen to bet.
    Dont bet 1000 if you have 1200 chips. If you are thinking of betting that much, just shove (again, NOT doing this shows inexperience imho). The same goes for calling a bet for ~75%+ of your stack. If you are going to call, push... There no magic number of when you should push rather than bet/call but I think approximately ~75% is a reasonable range. Also this will change with stacksizes, and where in the hand you are ie, on the flop it might be ~50%, shortstacked it might just be push or fold.
    Also, dont bet too small. So often I see players make a min bet into a 5 way limped pot, get their trips called and complain about chasers, when the 4th guy to call hits his flush. Don't give people good odds to chase their draws. Make your bet sizes relative to the pot: 1/2-3/4 of the pot is about standard. Sometimes this can be out of your control, in the case of 4+ live players, or players who like to chase draws. As happened to me a few weeks ago, I had KK UTG on a KJ7 flop with a flush draw out there, with 3 players calling my preflop raise of 3BB (@500/1000!). I bet out quite heavily (8K) only to be called by the first 2 opponents, giving the 3rd about 4.5:1 on his call, which he made. The turn came a blank, and I shoved my remaining 12K and got 1 call, 1 fold, and the last guy with the short stack made the call for his last 5K, beating me by hitting his flush on the river. Other caller had a biggerstack and was chasing a straight(QT)! * Pot winner openly said he'd have been out before the flop and on the flop had the other 2 not called me. (personally I think he should not have even called my preflop UTG raise from the SB with J8s)
    • Thats another thing. Dont show your cards if you dont have to. Don't get so friendly in the game that you announce just about every hand you had as the next is being prepared. And if you call someone else, don't show your hand until they have shown theirs (Ive often had to remind people "I called you mate, flip em!"), and if the do beat you, muck. Seriously, even if you have the nuts, if you call make them show, you get to see what they were betting (& how much) with. This is an almost universal thing all new players to live poker Ive known or seen, suffer from, and not just in Holdem, giving away a heap of information they either don't have to, or are'nt aware they are by talking.
  4. Look beyond your own hand.
    1. Keep an eye on your opponents stacks (live compared to online this can be difficult (at first) as all that info is right onfront of you, accurate to the $1 online and there is more to observe in live poker) and consider opponents bets/raises in relation to their stack. Someone else making a bet of a significant portion of their chips... It usually indicates strength. Whenever comparing bets/raises with stack sizes remember it is the smaller of the stacks involved which is the more significant one (The most that could possibly come into play in the hand is whatever would be the result of the shorter stack pushing allin, your extra chips dont matter - HU that is, multiway pots of course you also need consider the other stacksizes). Even if you have your opponent outstacked 10:1 (but he still has ie 15BB), if he puts in a bet of half his stack, think hardabout chasing that flush, cos you usually wont hit it anyway, and even when u do, you wont get paid off that much as your opponent only has a small stack! you'll only increase your stack by 10% when you hit. Same goes for calling with top pair good kicker (their bet indicates stronger) The chips you save are worth more than the chips you lose...
      Preflop, I like the 'Rule of 5 and 10' being that, with marginal hands, a raise of < 5% of your stack is a call, > 10% a fold (unless you are comfortable stackwise and are getting good odds as in a multiway pot), inbetween is dependant on your hand, your position, and how good your post flop play is etc. Again, this applies to the SMALLEST stack that has raised or called a raise, ie if the smallstack called or made a raise that was more than 10% of his stack, fold (your marginal hands, not QQ+ ;) ).
    2. What do your opponent(s) actions tell you about THEIR hands. Practice trying to put people on a range of hands, again wether your involved in the pot or not. Especially at events like 888PL where you come up against the same opponents on a regular basis you can pick up a lot of information over time if you are observant. I noticed after about 3 or 4 times playing on the same table as one guy, who is a good player, that he had an extremely accurate tell: he would AWLAYS 'spin' his chips in when he bet or called when he was strong, and simply place them out otherwise.
    3. Try to consider the implications of the current action for subsequent streets. Will calling this bet commit me to the pot? Will it commit my opponent? Will it commit my (or opponents) whole stack by the river? This also involves implied odds, but I dont want to talk odds and outs etc.

And just a few tips, to make live games better and even better for your game:
  • Learn to shuffle quickly and well. You can practice riffling cards on a stiff cushion or by placing a towel on the table, but either find a good instruction online, or get someone who can do it well show you how, amd a good set of cards like an 888PL deck. Having been trained as a dealer young and before that having dealers in the family, I sometimes shudder at the way people butcher the cards whilst shuffling :shock:
  • Learn to handle chips well. You've seen dealers 'cut' down a given amount of chips, either 5 or less, or as rows for amounts >5. Its not hard to learn, but don't use chips that are too light (=cheap), as its feel based. Makes it easier to count out the pot if you cant see an accurate count, or for dealing with side and split pots, organizing your own chips and making big bets in deepstack events.
    • In my opinion it is also a matter of style, but you should keep your chips organized, so you can easily read your stack, and easily count out a bet. You don't want a jumbled pile in front of you! If you have many chips, put them in sensible size stacks, say 10 of each denomination that are easy to count (a full stack at a Casino is 20 chips). And remember to keep your higher calue chips in clear view.
  • Learn to deal the holecards smoothly & quickly to each player. At the casino (and we had to manually shuffle back when I was there) we were to aim for 30-40 seconds to wash, riffle, cut onto cutcard and deal 2 cards each to a full table. Now Im not saying everyone need to be a casino standard dealer (its been so long Im not as quick at any of the process, mostly the actual dealing) but a quick game is good, and it will minimize accidentally upturned cards.
  • Anything you can do to make the game run smoother. The above are all primarily for that purpose. No one is too happy at the idea of being at a table for a while with someone who adds 5 minutes to every hand they play/deal and being on friendly terms with the other players is a good thing at the poker table (and can be good for your game). Players also quickly get irritated at others who continually muck or act out of turn. Or talk about their mucked cards while the hand is still live (I had a guy just last game I played openly say he folded a T, when 2 came on the flop, which, having T2 in the BB and a limped pot, kinda helped me, but I still didnt like him saying it!) You certainly don't want to piss people off and have them all gunning for you!

One last thing, which is just a personal thing I do (so may others, I don't know) is i give myself a predetermined amount of time to make a decision, usually 30seconds at an 888PL game, and 1 minute at buyin games. If I am still undecided I take the most passive route.
If its calling a bet, and I cant make up my mind within this time, I fold. If I know Im gonna call but am thinking of raising, I will just flat call. If Im first to act or checked to, I check. If you are still undecided on a call or fold decision after a minute in the tank, your usually not too strong or atleast not too confident in your hand. Sometimes I give up some value, but more often than not I save myself chips.

==============================
I hope someone finds something useful in this....
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Re: TIPS -- NOT Strategy Article

Postby bennymacca » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:29 am

there is some good advice in there. great post

(i could argue about how much of your own stack in the pot commits you, but i wont :P)
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Re: TIPS -- NOT Strategy Article

Postby Brett Kay » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:24 am

The only one that i disagree with is point 1.

When it is your turn to act, and then you look at your cards. It means everyone is focusing their attention onto you. So any tells that they have picked up it is pretty obvious when you first look at your hand.

The other side of this coin, is if you sneak a peak whilst it is before you, no one will be focused on you and you can then play your hand whilst also leaving yourself room for a bluff if needed later. You can also use a fake tell to make your hand look stronger than it is.

My thoughts, plus it does keep the game going a lot quicker. rather than having someone look at their cards 3 times before folding.

The simpler version of this would be, ALWAYS REMEMBER what you are holding. Looking at your cards every street gives people an idea that you might have a draw. E.g. black card flop, you look back to check what suits you have. Or you start mentally counting the straight out.
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Re: TIPS -- NOT Strategy Article

Postby bennymacca » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:32 am

i like the first point brett

i used to subconsciously pick up my chips, stop playing with my chips, etc etc when i had different kinds of hands.

i was told this by someone, so i stopped and only look at my cards when it is my turn to act

i feel this gives me a chance to take in the situation before i look at my cards, and i get less "attached" to cards.

you can also reverse tell pretty easily still. sometimes if there are a few limpers, i tell myself that they are weak and i am raising with any two cards. so then u can just give a quick look and snap raise, even if the cards are rubbish.
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Re: TIPS -- NOT Strategy Article

Postby Scotty » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:43 am

I agree with Brett's first point too, although I generally only look when action is on me.

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Re: TIPS -- NOT Strategy Article

Postby bennymacca » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:48 am

i guess that ones an each to their own sort of thing.
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Re: TIPS -- NOT Strategy Article

Postby David » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:58 am

I have found that looking at my cards when it's my turn is the way (for me) to go.

If I see my hand before any action has had the chance to occur, I start thinking about it, valuing it, and making decisions.

If action occurs, I often would be stuck in limbo of what I wanted to do previously, and what I should do now.

Therefore, valuing my hand at the time of my action makes it easier (again, for me) to make a better decision.

And if people see you look at your cards - just work on your acting!
Or, do what I sometimes do when people are looking at me, and pretend I've already looked, and then "re-check" your hand but actually see it for the first time.
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Re: TIPS -- NOT Strategy Article

Postby bennymacca » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:16 am

yeah a lot of people don't realise that you are looking at your hand for the first time.
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Re: TIPS -- NOT Strategy Article

Postby AJG » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:11 pm

bennymacca wrote:there is some good advice in there. great post

(i could argue about how much of your own stack in the pot commits you, but i wont :P)

The main point was to consider to this, not neccessarily advice on exactly at which point you should shove rather than call or raise. I did say that this is situitaionally dependant... and, of course, a matter of peronal style.

I was trying to keep the OP general, but at some point you need to put a few numbers out there...
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Re: TIPS -- NOT Strategy Article

Postby AJG » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:15 pm

Brett Kay wrote:The simpler version of this would be, ALWAYS REMEMBER what you are holding. Looking at your cards every street gives people an idea that you might have a draw. E.g. black card flop, you look back to check what suits you have. Or you start mentally counting the straight out.


Yeah I should probably have included something about this. It amazes me how often some people need to check their cards, even sometimes 3 times on a single street!
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