<facepalm>
A strategy is simply a method of approaching a situation - there can be more than one answer that works for you, just as there can be many many strategies that simply do not work for that given situation.
Arguing over which one you would use is pretty pointless, and I'd suggest another strategy - let the wookie win.
Good Poker Articles
- BigPete33
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Re: Good Poker Articles
Pardon me, but I think you'll find that's a shovel. See you next Tuesday!
- bennymacca
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Re: Good Poker Articles
i was watching this vid from respected 2p2 poster pokey. its a great vid, but mostly its about bet sizing
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/69/mi ... nl-252810/
min raising on the button works a treat! caused this dude in teh sb to completely spazz out and 3bet me every time, which pretty much got him in reverse implied odds scenario
i ended up stacking him when i min raised with q9 and hit my 9, and he spazzed and bet 2 streets into me with A high. i snapped off just my top pair, it was obv good, and he has gone ballistic!
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/69/mi ... nl-252810/
min raising on the button works a treat! caused this dude in teh sb to completely spazz out and 3bet me every time, which pretty much got him in reverse implied odds scenario
i ended up stacking him when i min raised with q9 and hit my 9, and he spazzed and bet 2 streets into me with A high. i snapped off just my top pair, it was obv good, and he has gone ballistic!
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- bennymacca
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Re: Good Poker Articles
i like this article about short stacking, and i think it equally applies to not buying in for a full amount
You'll often hear people talk about playing a "short-stack strategy": the idea is that you buy in for less that the maximum (often for the very minimum) in order to take advantage of your opponents. You can get yourself all-in relatively easily, and if your opponents fail to adjust properly you can win money.
While this statement is undeniably true, there are some huge flaws with this thought process.
Flaw #1: Short-stack strategy gives up your biggest poker advantage.
As students of the game, we are better players than our opponents. While that superior game-playing pays off somewhat preflop, it pays off far more significantly on postflop streets. Think of it: most preflop hand matchups involve relatively narrow edges. Pair vs. overcards? You're going to win at showdown about 55% of the time. Dominated hand (like AK vs. A6)? You're about a 70% favorite. Even pair vs. lower pair is only an 80% favorite to win. Most hand matchups are relatively close, and multiplied by relatively small amounts of money. In a heads-up match, a $1 bet on an 80% favorite clears you on average about 60 cents worth of profit. This is not the way to get rich playing poker.
Consider instead the play on later streets. First, the edges can be FAR larger. If you flop a nice hand, your opponent could easily be a 5-to-1 dog to win the hand. On the turn, that same hand could easily become a 10-to-1 dog. Of course, on the river your opponent is either a 100% loser or a 100% winner, so that river money is PURE profit (or loss, if you've made a mistake).
In addition, the dollar values are usually significantly larger on later-street bets. Since our wagers are typically measured in fractions of the pot, we will often see river bets that are 10 times larger than preflop bets. Take the following representative example:
You have QQ on the button in a $25NL game. You raise to $1 preflop and get called by the big blind (who is holding AJo). As a 72% favorite to win the hand, the preflop wager earns you about 33 cents.
The flop comes JT3. Your opponent checks and you bet $2 into a $2 pot. Your opponent calls. As an 80% favorite, this bet earns you $1.20.
The turn is another 3. You bet $5 into the $6 pot and your opponent calls again. At this point you are an 89% favorite to win the hand, so this bet earns you $3.90.
The river is yet another 3. You bet all-in for your last $17 and your opponent calls. This bet wins you $17.
Notice the difference in magnitude of the money you make on various streets: your preflop bet wins you 33 cents but your river bet wins you $17. Notice also that if you had pushed preflop and somehow gotten called by AJ, your expected win is only $11, less than the river bet when you play the hand out. This is because of the significant chance of a suckout loss, which is nonexistent on the river.
Our opponents play sloppy preflop poker, but they play absolutely HORRENDOUS postflop poker. By outplaying them on the expensive streets, we stand to win heaping piles of money. Playing a short-stack strategy, we won't really have a chance to play postflop poker, and we will therefore surrender our chance at all that postflop shwag.
Flaw #2: Short-stack strategy stunts your growth as a poker player.
I consider this second point even more significant: short-stack strategy is an inherently preflop game. You wait for your good hands, you bet hard preflop, and you push any flop. In doing so, you never have to think about postflop strategy, you never have to put an opponent on a hand, you never have to develop your reading skills, you never have to learn multi-street gambits, you never have to worry about overarching strategies, and you never have to improve as a poker player. Because it is so mindless, you never have to apply your mind to the game, and most short-stack experts never do. Heed the words of an OUTSTANDING poker player (Jason Strassa) in this thread where he suggested shaking yourself out of your comfort zone and putting yourself into challenging situations in order to improve as a player, knowing full well that you're not necessarily maximizing your profit for THAT EXACT MOMENT but that in the long run your strategy will quickly improve you as a poker player. From this, profits will follow.
In summary, playing short-stacked poker is a crutch that may make you some bucks in the immediate future but will cost you much in the long run. You play uNL poker to learn; don't subvert that learning process by eliminating the most challenging -- and most profitable! -- part of the poker game.
As a final parting shot, I offer up one little hand history to demonstrate one of the biggest pitfalls of short-stack strategy:
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $182.55
UTG+1: $310.85
Pokey: $219.40
Button: $98.50
SB: $148.35
BB: $25.35
Pre-flop: (6 players) Pokey is CO with J Q
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, Pokey raises to $5, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.
Flop: K T 9 ($20.5, 4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets $20.5, Pokey calls, Button folds, BB calls all-in $20.35.
Turn: 4 ($81.85, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $81.55, Sidepot 1: $0.3)
UTG+1 bets $50, Pokey raises to $100, UTG+1 calls.
River: 9 ($281.85, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $81.55, Sidepot 1: $200.3)
UTG+1 checks, Pokey is all-in $93.9, UTG+1 calls.
Results:
Final pot: $469.65
BB showed T 9 and wins the $78.55 (after rake) main pot.
Pokey showed J Q and wins the $388.10 side pot.
UTG+1 mucks T K
While I realize that this isn't a representative hand, it does illustrate a point: notice that the best hand won about one-fifth the amount I won. Don't stunt your game or your winrate by playing short-stacked!
You'll often hear people talk about playing a "short-stack strategy": the idea is that you buy in for less that the maximum (often for the very minimum) in order to take advantage of your opponents. You can get yourself all-in relatively easily, and if your opponents fail to adjust properly you can win money.
While this statement is undeniably true, there are some huge flaws with this thought process.
Flaw #1: Short-stack strategy gives up your biggest poker advantage.
As students of the game, we are better players than our opponents. While that superior game-playing pays off somewhat preflop, it pays off far more significantly on postflop streets. Think of it: most preflop hand matchups involve relatively narrow edges. Pair vs. overcards? You're going to win at showdown about 55% of the time. Dominated hand (like AK vs. A6)? You're about a 70% favorite. Even pair vs. lower pair is only an 80% favorite to win. Most hand matchups are relatively close, and multiplied by relatively small amounts of money. In a heads-up match, a $1 bet on an 80% favorite clears you on average about 60 cents worth of profit. This is not the way to get rich playing poker.
Consider instead the play on later streets. First, the edges can be FAR larger. If you flop a nice hand, your opponent could easily be a 5-to-1 dog to win the hand. On the turn, that same hand could easily become a 10-to-1 dog. Of course, on the river your opponent is either a 100% loser or a 100% winner, so that river money is PURE profit (or loss, if you've made a mistake).
In addition, the dollar values are usually significantly larger on later-street bets. Since our wagers are typically measured in fractions of the pot, we will often see river bets that are 10 times larger than preflop bets. Take the following representative example:
You have QQ on the button in a $25NL game. You raise to $1 preflop and get called by the big blind (who is holding AJo). As a 72% favorite to win the hand, the preflop wager earns you about 33 cents.
The flop comes JT3. Your opponent checks and you bet $2 into a $2 pot. Your opponent calls. As an 80% favorite, this bet earns you $1.20.
The turn is another 3. You bet $5 into the $6 pot and your opponent calls again. At this point you are an 89% favorite to win the hand, so this bet earns you $3.90.
The river is yet another 3. You bet all-in for your last $17 and your opponent calls. This bet wins you $17.
Notice the difference in magnitude of the money you make on various streets: your preflop bet wins you 33 cents but your river bet wins you $17. Notice also that if you had pushed preflop and somehow gotten called by AJ, your expected win is only $11, less than the river bet when you play the hand out. This is because of the significant chance of a suckout loss, which is nonexistent on the river.
Our opponents play sloppy preflop poker, but they play absolutely HORRENDOUS postflop poker. By outplaying them on the expensive streets, we stand to win heaping piles of money. Playing a short-stack strategy, we won't really have a chance to play postflop poker, and we will therefore surrender our chance at all that postflop shwag.
Flaw #2: Short-stack strategy stunts your growth as a poker player.
I consider this second point even more significant: short-stack strategy is an inherently preflop game. You wait for your good hands, you bet hard preflop, and you push any flop. In doing so, you never have to think about postflop strategy, you never have to put an opponent on a hand, you never have to develop your reading skills, you never have to learn multi-street gambits, you never have to worry about overarching strategies, and you never have to improve as a poker player. Because it is so mindless, you never have to apply your mind to the game, and most short-stack experts never do. Heed the words of an OUTSTANDING poker player (Jason Strassa) in this thread where he suggested shaking yourself out of your comfort zone and putting yourself into challenging situations in order to improve as a player, knowing full well that you're not necessarily maximizing your profit for THAT EXACT MOMENT but that in the long run your strategy will quickly improve you as a poker player. From this, profits will follow.
In summary, playing short-stacked poker is a crutch that may make you some bucks in the immediate future but will cost you much in the long run. You play uNL poker to learn; don't subvert that learning process by eliminating the most challenging -- and most profitable! -- part of the poker game.
As a final parting shot, I offer up one little hand history to demonstrate one of the biggest pitfalls of short-stack strategy:
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $182.55
UTG+1: $310.85
Pokey: $219.40
Button: $98.50
SB: $148.35
BB: $25.35
Pre-flop: (6 players) Pokey is CO with J Q
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, Pokey raises to $5, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.
Flop: K T 9 ($20.5, 4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets $20.5, Pokey calls, Button folds, BB calls all-in $20.35.
Turn: 4 ($81.85, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $81.55, Sidepot 1: $0.3)
UTG+1 bets $50, Pokey raises to $100, UTG+1 calls.
River: 9 ($281.85, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $81.55, Sidepot 1: $200.3)
UTG+1 checks, Pokey is all-in $93.9, UTG+1 calls.
Results:
Final pot: $469.65
BB showed T 9 and wins the $78.55 (after rake) main pot.
Pokey showed J Q and wins the $388.10 side pot.
UTG+1 mucks T K
While I realize that this isn't a representative hand, it does illustrate a point: notice that the best hand won about one-fifth the amount I won. Don't stunt your game or your winrate by playing short-stacked!
Check out The Rail, the only podcast dedicated to Australian Pub Poker! http://www.therail.com.au.
Once you have done that, follow the Rail Podcast on Twitter, Facebook!, and iTunes!
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- bennymacca
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Re: Good Poker Articles
this is a great article for heads up play when the blinds are big, that typically happens at the end of an 888pl tourney, or for those of us that like to play SNGs online.
pretty sure i am going to study this and put in a few hours into the turbo 6max SNGs. i typically only win around 55% of my heads up games in these, i think because my strategy mostly means i am second in chips when we get to heads up, but it will be interesting to see if this strategy works at all. (55% is prolly still pretty good, but it prolly should be higher given the horrible general standard of 6max SNGs)
http://www.cardplayer.com/cardplayer-ma ... hold-39-em
pretty sure i am going to study this and put in a few hours into the turbo 6max SNGs. i typically only win around 55% of my heads up games in these, i think because my strategy mostly means i am second in chips when we get to heads up, but it will be interesting to see if this strategy works at all. (55% is prolly still pretty good, but it prolly should be higher given the horrible general standard of 6max SNGs)
http://www.cardplayer.com/cardplayer-ma ... hold-39-em
Check out The Rail, the only podcast dedicated to Australian Pub Poker! http://www.therail.com.au.
Once you have done that, follow the Rail Podcast on Twitter, Facebook!, and iTunes!
Follow Me on Twitter
Once you have done that, follow the Rail Podcast on Twitter, Facebook!, and iTunes!
Follow Me on Twitter
- bennymacca
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- Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:30 am
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Re: Good Poker Articles
i really like this discussion with shaun deeb about representing hands. his description of his thought processes about the possible hand ranges of the other players is excellent
http://www.pokernews.com/strategy/repre ... b-8295.htm
Shaun Deeb is known for his incredible tournament results, as well as his ability to articulate strategy. He recently made the trip to Monaco for the European Poker Tour Grand Final Main Event and also competed in a couple of the side tournaments as well. He talked to PokerNews about an interesting hand he played that highlights this week’s concept: Representing hands.
Tournament: €5,000 buy-in six-max
Blinds: 100-200 with a 25 ante
Hand
At the time, I had 70,000 with the average at 30,000, so I had a lot of chips at that point in the tournament. I was opening a decent number of pots, and in this hand, I opened to 525 with queen-jack off in the high-jack. The guy to my left with about 30,000 flatted, the button flatted, the small blind flatted, and the big blind flatted.
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The flop comes king-ten-seven rainbow. The small blind led for 1,550 with about 25,000 behind. The big blind folded, and I flatted. I could have done anything on a rainbow board. I definitely consider raising versus a lot of opponents. The button pretty quickly made it 3,500, which is pretty strong sizing considering our stack sizes and the board texture. The small blind tanked and then flatted. At this point, I know I’m calling, but I think about it to make it seem like I don’t have the hand I have. Considering how deep we are and that I’m drawing to the nuts, if I three-bet there, it looks strong, but I think that if a guy hand king-ten or a set of sevens or anything strong, they wouldn’t fold to my three-bet. The only hand I’d get to fold is a one-pair hand, and there aren’t many draws. If I three-bet, I get four-bet by the hands that I want to have in the pot in case I hit to pay me off.
The turn came a jack, bringing a backdoor flush-draw and then a very interesting thing happened. The small blind decided to lead 3,200 into a pot that was about 12,500 or 13,000, leaving himself with 15,000 behind. Now I know the button has what I would consider a very strong hand. I’m thinking of ways of getting the small blind to fold and getting heads up with the button, and/or over-rep my hand and get kings-up to fold. I end up making it 10,600. The button tanked for about a minute-and-a-half. He’s in a miserable spot. I could have ace-queen, queen-nine, or eight-nine. I have all the straights in my range, and he almost never has a straight in his range.
If the river was a brick, I was planning on shoving since I’d set up a pot-size river-shove if I got called. The button called. Then the small blind goes into the tank himself, and he’s feeling pretty terrible. I’m thinking that he’s going to fold eight-nine because he’s thinking that the button has a set and I probably have ace-queen. He folds and the river comes an offsuit ace. I know the button never has a queen in his range, but I’m not sure if he knows I know that. I normally go for a value bet here, but since this hand is so obscure, I thought he might decide to hero call with a set if I shove for about 40,000, which was slightly more than pot. He thought about it for awhile before folding. I showed the jack, and the whole table went crazy. The small blind was so pissed off because he folded the best hand by far on the turn.
What was your table image before this hand?
My table image is usually pretty aggressive. I get recognized a lot at the table, so I think three or four of the players knew who I was online. Since I came to the table with 60,000, with the starting stack being 15,000, they probably figured I was pretty active.
Let’s back up. Can you talk me through what was going through your head on the flop and turn?
On the flop, I basically said to myself, I have eight clean outs to the nuts. It’s very rare that one of the other opponents has queen-jack the way the betting went. It’s very unlikely the button is going to raise with that draw, and it’s very unlikely the small blind is going to lead with that draw. Since that’s the way the hand went down, I was confident that my outs were clean. I also thought I’d get paid off. Since the sizing was so small on the flop, I could rep any gutshot if a queen or jack came on the turn, and I could possibly win the pot. And if a king or a ten came, I could possibly bluff too. I had really good position and a good stack size to maneuver and bluff a much better hand. If someone had ace-king, there are a number of combinations in the making where I could get him to fold. No matter what came, I could rep it. If a ten came, I could rep trips and act like I had ace-ten and called the flop and was getting priced in because the flop raise was so small, that I’d peel.
This hand was all about what you could credibly represent, is that right?
Yeah, basically when it comes to the turn, I am the most likely person to have ace-queen. I was the preflop raiser, I was calling, calling. I was deep enough and getting the right price along the way. When the small blind leads on the flop, I can be floating with a gutshot and overcard, or be thinking that I had the best hand. The way the hand went down, I was just very confident that no matter what was going on, I was going to convince them by the river that I had a gutshot and hit it on the turn. That was my goal. We were 300 big blinds deep so for people to call with the fifth or sixth nuts which a set would be on the board is really, really tough. So even if the river blanked, I was planning on shoving. I don’t know if he would have folded or not, but it might have worked. If it didn’t, it didn’t, but I think it would have put him in a really tough spot.
So even if it was a blank on the river and he tank-called, you would have felt good about the play?
Yeah, I clearly realized that he would think it was believable that I had ace-queen. [laughs] But if he insta-called the river, then I would have felt bad.
What are the most important aspects to keep in mind when you are making a play like this, and you’re trying representing a hand?
Basically, when you’re repping, you have to do it against competent, thinking opponents who will put you on a range, whether you’re bluffing or value-betting, and interpret what they think your bets mean. When I raised the turn in this hand, they are going to interpret that like I had improved my hand in some way. I could have picked up a pair, a set, a flush draw, or a straight. There were a lot of different hands I could have. That’s what I was going for. All the hands that improved on the turn were in my range, but not theirs because they represented a lot of strength on that flop, and no hands that rep a lot of strength on that flop really like the turn card, unless they have eight-nine, but the eight-nine is still the third nuts. That’s the beauty of this hand is that they never have the nuts in this hand. In this spot, even though they may have relatively strong hands, according to the line I took, they were only bluff catchers.
What mistakes do you see beginners making when trying to represent hands?
You have to realize, and a lot of old pros say this, but when you make a bluff, you have to make the story believable. That’s how simple it is. If someone has seen you bet a flush draw every time, but in a certain hand you call and then raise the river when the flush comes, it’s not going to make sense. Based on the way my hand went down, the positions and preflop ranges and the way they adjusted as the hand progressed, I knew that the turn card was a good one to bluff. It’s all about board texture and understanding how hand ranges change with every card that comes off.
http://www.pokernews.com/strategy/repre ... b-8295.htm
Shaun Deeb is known for his incredible tournament results, as well as his ability to articulate strategy. He recently made the trip to Monaco for the European Poker Tour Grand Final Main Event and also competed in a couple of the side tournaments as well. He talked to PokerNews about an interesting hand he played that highlights this week’s concept: Representing hands.
Tournament: €5,000 buy-in six-max
Blinds: 100-200 with a 25 ante
Hand
At the time, I had 70,000 with the average at 30,000, so I had a lot of chips at that point in the tournament. I was opening a decent number of pots, and in this hand, I opened to 525 with queen-jack off in the high-jack. The guy to my left with about 30,000 flatted, the button flatted, the small blind flatted, and the big blind flatted.
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The flop comes king-ten-seven rainbow. The small blind led for 1,550 with about 25,000 behind. The big blind folded, and I flatted. I could have done anything on a rainbow board. I definitely consider raising versus a lot of opponents. The button pretty quickly made it 3,500, which is pretty strong sizing considering our stack sizes and the board texture. The small blind tanked and then flatted. At this point, I know I’m calling, but I think about it to make it seem like I don’t have the hand I have. Considering how deep we are and that I’m drawing to the nuts, if I three-bet there, it looks strong, but I think that if a guy hand king-ten or a set of sevens or anything strong, they wouldn’t fold to my three-bet. The only hand I’d get to fold is a one-pair hand, and there aren’t many draws. If I three-bet, I get four-bet by the hands that I want to have in the pot in case I hit to pay me off.
The turn came a jack, bringing a backdoor flush-draw and then a very interesting thing happened. The small blind decided to lead 3,200 into a pot that was about 12,500 or 13,000, leaving himself with 15,000 behind. Now I know the button has what I would consider a very strong hand. I’m thinking of ways of getting the small blind to fold and getting heads up with the button, and/or over-rep my hand and get kings-up to fold. I end up making it 10,600. The button tanked for about a minute-and-a-half. He’s in a miserable spot. I could have ace-queen, queen-nine, or eight-nine. I have all the straights in my range, and he almost never has a straight in his range.
If the river was a brick, I was planning on shoving since I’d set up a pot-size river-shove if I got called. The button called. Then the small blind goes into the tank himself, and he’s feeling pretty terrible. I’m thinking that he’s going to fold eight-nine because he’s thinking that the button has a set and I probably have ace-queen. He folds and the river comes an offsuit ace. I know the button never has a queen in his range, but I’m not sure if he knows I know that. I normally go for a value bet here, but since this hand is so obscure, I thought he might decide to hero call with a set if I shove for about 40,000, which was slightly more than pot. He thought about it for awhile before folding. I showed the jack, and the whole table went crazy. The small blind was so pissed off because he folded the best hand by far on the turn.
What was your table image before this hand?
My table image is usually pretty aggressive. I get recognized a lot at the table, so I think three or four of the players knew who I was online. Since I came to the table with 60,000, with the starting stack being 15,000, they probably figured I was pretty active.
Let’s back up. Can you talk me through what was going through your head on the flop and turn?
On the flop, I basically said to myself, I have eight clean outs to the nuts. It’s very rare that one of the other opponents has queen-jack the way the betting went. It’s very unlikely the button is going to raise with that draw, and it’s very unlikely the small blind is going to lead with that draw. Since that’s the way the hand went down, I was confident that my outs were clean. I also thought I’d get paid off. Since the sizing was so small on the flop, I could rep any gutshot if a queen or jack came on the turn, and I could possibly win the pot. And if a king or a ten came, I could possibly bluff too. I had really good position and a good stack size to maneuver and bluff a much better hand. If someone had ace-king, there are a number of combinations in the making where I could get him to fold. No matter what came, I could rep it. If a ten came, I could rep trips and act like I had ace-ten and called the flop and was getting priced in because the flop raise was so small, that I’d peel.
This hand was all about what you could credibly represent, is that right?
Yeah, basically when it comes to the turn, I am the most likely person to have ace-queen. I was the preflop raiser, I was calling, calling. I was deep enough and getting the right price along the way. When the small blind leads on the flop, I can be floating with a gutshot and overcard, or be thinking that I had the best hand. The way the hand went down, I was just very confident that no matter what was going on, I was going to convince them by the river that I had a gutshot and hit it on the turn. That was my goal. We were 300 big blinds deep so for people to call with the fifth or sixth nuts which a set would be on the board is really, really tough. So even if the river blanked, I was planning on shoving. I don’t know if he would have folded or not, but it might have worked. If it didn’t, it didn’t, but I think it would have put him in a really tough spot.
So even if it was a blank on the river and he tank-called, you would have felt good about the play?
Yeah, I clearly realized that he would think it was believable that I had ace-queen. [laughs] But if he insta-called the river, then I would have felt bad.
What are the most important aspects to keep in mind when you are making a play like this, and you’re trying representing a hand?
Basically, when you’re repping, you have to do it against competent, thinking opponents who will put you on a range, whether you’re bluffing or value-betting, and interpret what they think your bets mean. When I raised the turn in this hand, they are going to interpret that like I had improved my hand in some way. I could have picked up a pair, a set, a flush draw, or a straight. There were a lot of different hands I could have. That’s what I was going for. All the hands that improved on the turn were in my range, but not theirs because they represented a lot of strength on that flop, and no hands that rep a lot of strength on that flop really like the turn card, unless they have eight-nine, but the eight-nine is still the third nuts. That’s the beauty of this hand is that they never have the nuts in this hand. In this spot, even though they may have relatively strong hands, according to the line I took, they were only bluff catchers.
What mistakes do you see beginners making when trying to represent hands?
You have to realize, and a lot of old pros say this, but when you make a bluff, you have to make the story believable. That’s how simple it is. If someone has seen you bet a flush draw every time, but in a certain hand you call and then raise the river when the flush comes, it’s not going to make sense. Based on the way my hand went down, the positions and preflop ranges and the way they adjusted as the hand progressed, I knew that the turn card was a good one to bluff. It’s all about board texture and understanding how hand ranges change with every card that comes off.
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- bennymacca
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Re: Good Poker Articles
here is another really good article, from a twoplustwo forum post.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/69/mi ... ng-782698/
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/69/mi ... ng-782698/
udbrky wrote:I wanted to do a 15k post to give back something, but it took me a bit to find something.
I don’t think a lot of people vary their raises well. Most just pick a bet size and blindly use that all the time. After all, we’re always taught to use static bet sizes so as not to give away the strength of our hands. I also blame the drive to play more tables and the inventions of table ninja type programs. For the last month, I’ve quit using table ninja and never use the pot button. So this means, I think in every hand “How much do I want to bet here?”
So why vary bet sizes? You want to bet to accomplish your goal in the hand. What’s your goal in the hand? Make as much money as possible. The same standard bet size won’t always do that. When should you vary your bet sizes? Every street, every hand imo.
Preflop bet size variance
Here is where I would vary it far less than anywhere else. I’m using the same size in the same situations vs the same opponent types in the same positions. I open 4x in ep, and in later position, 3x. If there are two TAGs in the blinds who will fold 85%+, and have a 10% 3bet from the blinds, I will minraise a lot.
The reason I minraise OTB is you get folds so often. When you raise 2bb to win 1.5bb, it only has to work 57.1% of the time to be breakeven, if you always get raised and fold, or they fold. If they call, then you have position, in essentially a limped pot, where you know their hands are weak and they won’t be as interested in the pot. So you can throw out a smaller bet and steal a pot with air more often. The pot’s only 5.5bb, so they won’t fight you for it as much as a 7.5bb pot or more. You also risk less with a c-bet when it doesn’t work. The other reason I do it is, there’s less money out there, and it’s less appealing to 3bet.
The reason I raise smaller in late position is because I’m opening more often, will have position more often, and will often have a weaker hand. You want to use your position more to outplay people. When you’re in early position, your hand strength is stronger, you’re out of position a lot, and since you’re out of position, you want a larger pot preflop. Since your hand is stronger, you want to use the strength of your cards to outplay people.
If there are fish in the blinds, then you want to raise larger. You especially want to raise larger if the opponent will call preflop, and check-fold a lot. This is because you want them to put more money in the pot before they decide to fold, or to keep putting more money in with a weaker hand.
How about when you 3bet? Vary it based on the player and being in position or out of position. If I’m 3betting a TAG in position, I raise smaller. If they open to 3bb, I 3bet to 8bb. If 4bb, I make it 11. Sure, I give them better odds to call, but 1) I’m in position 2) they’re not calling a lot of 3bets 3) if they call, they have a weaker-medium strength hand. So if they do call, and the flop comes down Axx, it’s easy to take it away. They fold a ton on the flop.
Out of position, I’m still making it larger – like 3x + 2bb usually. And if a fish opens and I’m 3betting, I make it at least 3x in position. They’re calling more, so I’m using my position and hand strength.
So when you’re raising preflop, think about the opponents active. Who’s most likely to play against you? How often are they folding? Are you in position, or out of position? If you’re likely to be up against a fish, in position, and see a flop, raise larger. If you’re in position vs a TAG and not likely to see a flop, you can make it smaller. Risk less to win when you take it down a greater percentage of the time.
Flop bet size variance
This is the street where I’m more likely to bet larger. It helps define the range more, gets more money in versus draws, and gets more value out of weaker pair hands. On the flop, I vary my betsizing by board texture. The drawier the board is, the more I bet. There’s more hands that are going to like it/get enough that they don’t want to fold. When it’s dry, there’s fewer hands that hit it. So when you have AK on a K82 board, you can bet smaller, and get calls from 99, A8, K9 type hands that may get scared if you bet closer to the pot. You also have a smaller loss when you do run into a set.
Also, on a dry board, you really don’t want to have a spot where you can bet/3bai a lot. The range of hands that get in with you is very polarized to sets vs. solid players. On a drawy board, you can be up against a lot of draws, so if you do bet/3bai, you’re more likely to be flipping than on a dry board.
Against complete fish, just try to get the money in. And if they donk into you, and you have a strong pair, then let them keep donking. I call this the Duncan Theorem (after dsmith_77):
“Make a pair against a fish, and don’t fold.”
I’m pretty sure I make most of my money using this theorem.
If they check, then bet bigger with your strong hands. They’ll still call with weaker hands and draws. In fact, if it’s drawy, and you think he has the draw, bet as large as possible. I wouldn’t go over 125% pot, but you can overbet the pot. Why? Because fish don’t go “oh, I can’t call here, I’m not getting good odds.” They say “I has a flush draw, I call.” They don’t look at the size of the bet.
So what happens when you do flop super strong, on a dry board where your opponent likely has a medium strength hand, that you crush, and very little else?
Villain (100bb)
Hero (100bb)
Villain opens to 3bb
Hero 3bets with [ah] [ac]
Villain calls.
Flop (pot 23.5bb) is [7h] [7c] [3s]
Villain checks.
Hero bets 8bb.
Whoa, but why am I betting so small? Don’t I want to get all the money in? Yes. Yes, you do. And if villain has KK or QQ, all the money goes in no matter what. But what if he has 99 or TT? He’s not folding here ever for that type of bet. In fact, he’ll raise a lot. He raises because it looks like you’re full of ****. So guess what. They raise a lot. When they raise, call, and let them bloof. It’s amazing how often this works against solid players. After all, if you wanted to get max value out of your big hands, you want to bet bigger, right? If they fold, which they do a lot, they had a weak hand and wouldn’t have paid off a larger bet, thus, you don’t lose value.
With hands you’re willing to stack off with, bet so that you can bet-bet-shove easily. You want about 2/3 psb on the river, or maybe ½ pot if your hand is really strong and your villain might be weaker. ¾ psb on the flop is usually a good amount.
Turn bet size variance
Again, on the turn, you vary based on opponents and texture. The more drawy, the more you want to bet. Just keep betting as much as fish will call. If you think they’re weak, maybe 2nd pair type hands, bet smaller. Bet like 40-50% of the pot on dry boards. They’ll usually call with less than top pair for a smaller bet, whereas they’ll fold to a bigger bet. Maximize your profit by keeping their weak hands in.
Getting to the turn versus TAG’s with medium strength hands isn’t always the most fun. A lot of the time, you’re getting raised. When you get raised, it’s 2pair and sets a lot. They’ll still call with top pair hands. So on dry boards, you can bet smaller. This way, you get value out of his weaker hands that you beat, while losing less when he has a set. And if you have a monster, betting smaller might induce him to raise with hands you beat.
Dry boards, ½ psb is good, and wet boards, 2/3 is usually sufficient. You just don’t want to get to a spot where you’re committed on the river while being behind his range.
River bet size variance
I’ve been working a lot on varying my river bet sizes lately. I think betting the right size on the river can increase your win rate a lot. You can get thin value from weaker hands, induce weaker hands to value raise thinner, or just get people off weaker hands that beat you. So what are some good ways to do maximize your value on the river?
The river has become my favorite street by far to play lately. The reason is, I’m varying my bet size so much. I rarely bet the same size. Here’s one of the few spots where my size is dependent on my hand strength a lot.
Usually if you get to the river against a tag without any raises going in, they most likely have a medium strength hand. Especially if the board was wetter. The reason their hand is more likely to be medium strength is, it’s harder to get stacks in if you don’t raise one street. It sucks to not get your stack in with a set/2pair. So when they don’t try to get their stack in, it’s most likely a top pair/small overpair.
So you’re not going to be able to get another near psb in for value in most circumstances. So bet smaller. Go for ½ psb or so. If you have AK on an A72J5 board, AQ is paying off depending on the action. AT will fold to a larger bet.
Against a fish, you definitely want to go for max value. If you’ve gotten to the river with a strong pair, and the draws didn’t hit, you want to get money in. I wouldn’t worry too much about betting small to massage a call, unless you think they had a draw, where they picked up a weak pair, and might make a crying call.
Against an aggressive opponent, sometimes, you want to check if you’re out
of position. Let’s say you’ve been betting TPTK and the flush draw missed. Check if he’ll bet the river a lot – like 40%+. If you bet here, all you’re doing is getting value out of his weaker strong hands. So check, and let him bluff. Sure, he might check behind with his medium strength hands, but he might fold those when you bet. So you probably aren’t missing much value.
A lot of times, you get to the river, and you’ve got a hand that you’re pretty sure you’re the best. In fact, it’s highly likely that your opponent has like 3rd pair, or maybe even A-high busted FD. Here is where I make what I call a “stupid bet”. If there’s 35bb in the pot, I like to bet 8-9 or so, definitely no more than 12. So often, villain tanks, and goes ‘F it’ and calls with a stupid hand. The other day, I bet 2bb and got a guy to call with T-high. I just make up some random amount and bet it, trying to get called by weaker hands.
When you bluff the river, you still want it to be about 2/3 psb or so. If you start bluffing less, villain will talk themselves into calling because they’re getting 3:1 odds. So make it a little bigger so he won’t be as likely to make hero calls.
Another variation I’ve been using for a bit is in limped pots. Sometimes, you’re in a 3-way limped pot with something awful – like 83o. The board runs out random, and it’s checked through to the river. Here, I like to minbet with my entire range a lot. You get tons of folds. You also get a lot of calls w/ high cards. So when you do hit that random huge hand like trip 3’s, you get paid off by Q-high at times just because you minbet. But it’s amazing how often everyone folds.
So there’s some of my thoughts on varying your bet sizing. Note that except on the river and against total fish, it’s not about my hand strength. It’s about board texture, opponent tendencies, position, and their perceived hand strength. Basically what I’m trying to do is to manipulate my opponents’ hand range by betting an amount that will get him to pay me off wider with a weaker range. So I’ll value bet thinner, smaller, in spots where I think he’ll go “wtf is this ****” and make a superhero call.
I can’t accurately quantitate how much this has increased my winrate, but it’s one reason I’ve broken out of a breakeven stretch to have a 4.5BB/100 winrate so far this month. I think I’ve maximized my profit in spots where I wasn’t before.
tl;dr
cliff notes: Think about why you’re betting how much you’re betting. What are you trying to accomplish? What will he fold? What will he call you with? Will he fold to 2/3 psb, but call 2/5 psb?
Check out The Rail, the only podcast dedicated to Australian Pub Poker! http://www.therail.com.au.
Once you have done that, follow the Rail Podcast on Twitter, Facebook!, and iTunes!
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