Whats your Preferred play? (beginners or advanced)

[Garth Kay]

I think you have applied too tight a range to the BB in this spot James.

If he is a thinking player then he might be calling with a wider range of hands for the implied odds that two other callers behind can provide. And it's unusual to see three players limp pre and then fold to a raise OOP this early in a tournament.

I think villain wakes up here with KJ, QJ, 9T, QT, J8 type of hands more often than he is found with 88 - JJ.

[MitchyMitch]

I think you have applied too tight a range to the BB in this spot James.

If he is a thinking player then he might be calling with a wider range of hands for the implied odds that two other callers behind can provide. And it's unusual to see three players limp pre and then fold to a raise OOP this early in a tournament.

I think villain wakes up here with KJ, QJ, 9T, QT, J8 type of hands more often than he is found with 88 - JJ.

yeah just realised i read it wrong, i thought he was one of the first to act. my bad lol ingore my last post as him being in the BB kind of changes everything. Just a note to everyon i think that my last post is correct for EP and MP, thanks for picking that up garth

[bennymacca]

i like the bet-call flop, check call turn, check raise river line.

that will get max value out of top pair hands.


i also think that your raise preflop is pretty horrible - if you dont hit your set, you have just bloated the pot, multiway, out of position.

[gmatical]

Okay, great imput so far, good to see that there are a variety of different selections of the options provided.

The call turn, check river (to induce bet) is so far the most popular choice - and I think has good reason to be.

What I actually did was wrong, in hindsight. I min-raised turn to try and get him committed to the pot with a hand like AJ, AK, KJ or non-set pocket pair. He folded. It would have looked too strong or fishy from his point of view. (geez my play in this hand was terrible all round)

Anyway, thinking about it further, as he folds to my min-raise - his hand is weak-ish but could be some combo with showdown value, that checks behind a river check anyway - so i haven't really cost myself value.

Bearing the above thought process - would value betting the river change much?

Breaking it down further, as he is likely checking down many rivers with a hand he no longer loves (seen as i have check/called his previous 2 acts of aggression on a non-drawy board) - what value bet should we make??

Should it be half pot or something crazy like $200?

I have thought about my question and where it is going and it is getting a bit warped/confusing/hypothetical - but I am trying to establish what my peers think is the best option from here (regardless of the quality of my earlier play in the hand).

I think we all get into spots where we have hard decisions to make and there are many hand discussion posts that analyse pre-flop decisions, with uncertainty of our chances of victory with hands like 88 etc. These hands are great because they force us to think about our betting habits etc that become our 'default' plays when we next get into these spots.

What I don't see many threads about is what to do when we are in a great spot - how to make the most $$ out of our fortuate situation. Not just flopping sets, but other disguised powerful hands.

Looking forward to your thoughts on the value bet options.

[Garth Kay]

Baluga theorem FTW!

[bennymacca]

Baluga theorem FTW!

spot on garth

for those that dont know what baluga theorem is, simply put it means "strongly re-evaluate single pair type hands to turn raises"

your check call check min raise line looks insanely strong, i would probably fold AJ in this spot, definitely any worse J.

[muzzington]

Can we talk about preflop yet?

[MitchyMitch]

Gmatical,
When im at the river i like to think in 3rd person. I think of what im representing on the river RELITIVE to what the villian thinks i have. this is why alot of bluffs dont work because they simply dont make sense to the opponent.

Alot of players will simply call out of couriosity, every hand you play should tell a story to the villian, this is why im so adiment on controling the pots, this way your decide with beginning middle and end of the story. This is especially true with people that are not very good as they need to be guided through a hand with your actions alot fo the time.

Easiest way to to do it put your villian on a range and bet what you would call if you had his cards..

[MitchyMitch]

As for the hand itself. what are you afraid of exactly, why are you trying to extract value from the turn when you can get lots and lots of value on the river if he improves. There are three streets, should just let him hang himself in a hand like this. if he improves and makes a set (which you will have a book) or 2 pr he's getting it in anyways. this will work especially well with a player who only thinking at a level 1 or 2. as they are not considering you have a set.

its actually a quite funny, you are more likely to get a fold with a min raise from a lvl 1 or 2 player here then a 3 or 4 here because your represention of strengh could bring up a bluff flag for a thinking player. if you got min re-reraised i would be flatting 100% of the tiem so they can continue there line. your aim is to get as many chips in BY THE RIVER on a board texture like this. the more streets the villian is exposed to the more of a chance he will do something stupid, which is when you will get paid off

[gmatical]

Can we talk about preflop yet?

Yeah, go on.