Betting and Rasing on the Flop.

[madali]

Mick I am concerned that if 3 TD's agreed with the second raise ( first guy bets 200 second reraises to 300) that they may not have been fully aware of what was happening because it would be unlikely that 3 would make the same mistake when the rule is quite well known. Perhaps it is more like just confusion to what is happening but if they are all understanding what is going on and ruling the way you say then there is a big problem here. I know it has been suggested that you email your concerns so that they can be addressed. I would do this with the latest incident and see how that goes.

[Caleb]

If reading this correctly.

Flop 345
Player 1 bets 200
Player 2 folds
Player 3 raises to 300

You are correct in stating the raise has to be 400 or more. Since the initial bet took the action from 0 - 200, a difference of 200, the next raise must be by that amount or more.

Were the TC(s) viewing this hand as it was playing out?

Sometimes confusion ensues in the retelling of hands. I know more than once this has happened and I thought the player betting 300 was the FIRST to bet, which is a legal bet.

If you are positive about it and a TC offers to pull out the hard copy of the rules, let them. I wouldn't have a problem with that if it was me. Either way, someone will be corrected and the situation wont occur again.

Madali beat me to it about the confusion possibility as well.

[666HARPS666]

Mick ,
if 1st to act went 200 & 2nd folded ,But third raised to 500 ,that is fine .

[Miick]

yes i know it was if they went 500. yeah think 2 other didnt under stand what i was saying think they thought no 1 has acted but the one actually running the tournment who got called over said it was ok. they other TC who was just playing told me that depends on what poker leauge u play its differnt rules. since i only resently moved to the region. i thought maybe i was wrong thats how 888 is played

[bennymacca]

send an email to the national operations manager, garth kay

info@888pl.com.au

he will sort it out for you

[AJG]

I may just be restating what others have said, but I find it easiest to think of it like this:

A raise must be equal in size (or greater) than the last bet or raise made.

That covers both 1bet before the raise, and 1 or more reraises, together.

Sayin it has to be double the previous bet is only correct if 1 bet has been made (and possibly called).
If someone bets 200, and I raise to 500, the minimum raise is to 800, NOT 1000, as the 'double' would have you think....
And: bet-200, raise-500, reraise-1200 - the last raise was 700, so 1900 consitutes a legal rereraise.

[Miick]

yep thats right. i tryed to tell them tonight they were wrong but still said i was. there was a first time TC running it tonight he agreed with me. the other 1 still disagree's and the pulled out the rule book and read it and still belive that i am wrong.

[Caleb]

yep thats right. i tryed to tell them tonight they were wrong but still said i was. there was a first time TC running it tonight he agreed with me. the other 1 still disagree's and the pulled out the rule book and read it and still belive that i am wrong.

So in his rule book it says you can raise to any amount, no matter what the previous bet is?

That's a bad rule book.

There is one more possibilty here. It refers to reopening the betting.

If a player bets 200, and a player moves all in for 300, the initial raiser has the option to re-raise anyone else left in the hand due to the all-in being considered a legal raise, despite obviously not meeting the minimum raise requirements.

For betting to be reopened the all in must be AT LEAST 50% of a legal raise. Obviously the 300 here is exactly 50%, and therefore technically legal.

I'm sort of grasping at straws here, but there is a slight possibility that this part of the rule is getting mixed in where it shouldn't.

Any more concerns Mick, email this address. Tell them about this thread and anything else you think would help. You won't get anyone in trouble. This is the sort of thing it's helpful to know about.

info@888pl.com.au

[smittdoggy]

I think the confusing part here for miick is the word "DOUBLE" the bet... it never has to be double the bet never use that word and it will be easier to understand.
the raiser only has to raise by the increment of the last bet.
i.e
pre flop binds 100/200
utg can raise to 300 coz the difference in the blinds is 100
and then utg+2 can raise to 400 or more if he wishes another increment of 100.. you follow

post flop whoever leads out can bet anything they wish over the big blind so in this case min bet is 200. so lets say i lead out with 250 after the flop.
next person if they wish to raise must make it a min of 500
lets say they do so it has been reraised to 500... an increment of 250.

now next person wants to pop it up again they dont need to make it 1000 to raise " DOUBLE " THEY only need to make it 750 or more .. this is the differnce between the last raise of 250..
but the 3rd person makes it 1250 .. so now we have a differnce of 750 so another raise here would have to to 2000 min ( only the difference between the 2 raises)
hope this helps and makes sence i think i went on a bit to much but tried to make it simple

[bennymacca]

I think the confusing part here for miick is the word "DOUBLE" the bet... it never has to be double the bet never use that word and it will be easier to understand.
the raiser only has to raise by the increment of the last bet.
i.e
pre flop binds 100/200
utg can raise to 300 coz the difference in the blinds is 100
and then utg+2 can raise to 400 or more if he wishes another increment of 100.. you follow

post flop whoever leads out can bet anything they wish over the big blind so in this case min bet is 200. so lets say i lead out with 250 after the flop.
next person if they wish to raise must make it a min of 500
lets say they do so it has been reraised to 500... an increment of 250.

now next person wants to pop it up again they dont need to make it 1000 to raise " DOUBLE " THEY only need to make it 750 or more .. this is the differnce between the last raise of 250..
but the 3rd person makes it 1250 .. so now we have a differnce of 750 so another raise here would have to to 2000 min ( only the difference between the 2 raises)
hope this helps and makes sence i think i went on a bit to much but tried to make it simple

it is double the previous RAISE (i.e the amount over and above the bet) not double the previous BET

simple