Poker Ettiquete

[Garth Kay]

Hi All,


Contrary to popular belief I was not always working in an office with a laptop connected to my fingertips; before I started working for FHG as the South Australian Poker Manager I was actually a Tournament Director for another provider. I worked well over 200 tournaments with this other provider and I would direct fields the size of 40 up to 150.


With my involvement with 888PL I no longer Direct regular tournaments but I have probably witnessed more than 5,000 hours of live poker and I quite often see the same repeated breaches in etiquette that continually "grinds my gears" so in no particular order here are the TOP 4 things NOT TO DO AT A POKER TABLE.


EXCESSIVE TABLE TALK


For those of you who have played on the same table as me you will all know that I love a good chat whilst involved in a hand. I have no issues with table talk as long as it is within the bounds of decency and follows the following rules:
1.) You must be in the Hand to talk about
2.) You must be heads up
3.) There must be no action pending after your action and
4.) You actually must be faced with a cal/fold raise decision - if it is checked to you just shut up and play the hand.


Many players and TD's will disagree with this as it can be an angle shoot, but within 888PL I have no issue with some friendly banter. I too often see some Hellmuth wanna be start spouting off ridiculous and insulting comments and yet the cards have not even be tabled
As a spectator and non active player it is ALWAYS important that you do not discuss the hand in any way or make any comments that affect the action; too often as TD's we hear "Oh damn, I would have hit trip deuces!" or "You gotta call here, he is for sure bluffing!" This is a big breach and probably my biggest pet peeve from fellow players.


SHOWDOWN - THE NO ROLL


Now here's a new problem slowly climbing the charts (for my top 20 things not to do at the poker table) for some reason 888PL players love not to showdown their hands. I think this is a result of hearing "Don't show, you give away too much information" once too often.
Contrary to popular belief there is etiquette for showing down hands and here it is:

There is an order of showdown; if no one has bet on the turn or river then players should show in a clockwise direction from the button.
If there was aggressive action on the flop, but nothing on the turn and river, those cards have changed the situation that dramatically that the order of showdown from the button is the fairest way.
The biggie and the one that causes the most confusion is if someone bets and gets a caller on the turn or river; in this situation the person who made the last aggressive action ( i.e. bet, raised or reraised and was called by the other player ) Is committed to show first, and the caller can insist they show before he turns his/her cards over (this is not bad etiquette, this is the correct order)
The bettor can if he wishes throw his cards into the muck, the caller was probably right and the bettor was bluffing. If the cards are retrievable the caller can still ask to see (this is now bad etiquette) Even still, the caller must now expose his cards to win the pot.
You must ALWAYS expose two cards to win a pot or make a claim for any pot. Just showing your Ace is a MUCK and the pot should get awarded to the next best hand!
If you are called roll your hole cards quickly and without delay and declare your hand.

Too often over the last six months I have seen too many players trying to angle shoot the river or misdeclare their hand hoping their opponent mucks. Always show down your hole cards and always showdown in the correct order!


SHOWDOWN - SLOW ROLLING


And the NUMBER 1 thing to do on the "if you want to lose your friends and have a very long list of people who despise me" list is to quite simply SLOW ROLL.


Some players seem to think it is fun to dash player's hopes and show how sly they are by slowly rolling their quad aces to defeat their opponents rolled up boat. It just isn't good sportsmanship and is the fast way to eventually lose all the respect your fellow players and friends will have for you.


DEALER CONTROLS THE TABLE


This is the big one for me and I see this get overlooked and cause SO MANY issues at Finals again and again. Once the blinds and antes are posted only ONE person is responsible for chips and card and that is the dealer.


Whilst most people stick to this rule and allow the dealer to run the table whilst the hand is in play there are some who feel the need to always involved themselves and confuse the whole table. Only one person captains the table and handles the chips and that is the Dealer.


TAKING CHANGE


Just leading on from this a little bit change for a bet or Blind should NEVER be taken from the pot UNTIL the betting round is complete. Too many times at finals where we have 3+ way all ins and get called over to sort out side pots to find that SB took their change from the BB and then UTG took change for his bet from the guy who just moved all in. This is complicated and it is easier enough for a dealer or TC to sort change at the end of the round of betting.


There are many more items I can add to this but I am sure we will cover more off in the lead up to the 888PL Grand Final.


REMEMBER: if at any time you have a query or unsure about procedures or rulings our friendly TC's are always on hand to assist and help with any issues you may have at 888PL events.


Have you won your 888PL Grand Final entry yet? We are running Satellites throughout South Australia and Victoria in the lead up to the Grand Final and I would love to see us crack the 400 mark and crack the $200,000 mark for cash and prizes. As it stands right now there will definitely be over $150,000 in cash prizes!

[thelaw88]

too often as TD's we hear "Oh damn, I would have hit trip deuces!" or "You gotta call here, he is for sure bluffing!" This is a big breach and probably my biggest pet peeve from fellow players.

Just leading on from this a little bit change for a bet or Blind should NEVER be taken from the pot UNTIL the betting round is complete. Too many times at finals where we have 3+ way all ins and get called over to sort out side pots to find that SB took their change from the BB and then UTG took change for his bet from the guy who just moved all in. This is complicated and it is easier enough for a dealer or TC to sort change at the end of the round of betting.

These are my two biggest annoyances, glad this has been posted - however it is likely that the majority that need to be reading this won't be on the forum to see it unfortunately. It'll help though, hopefully.

[Garth Kay]

These are my two biggest annoyances, glad this has been posted - however it is likely that the majority that need to be reading this won't be on the forum to see it unfortunately. It'll help though, hopefully.

It was also posted as a news story on the website and was linked to in the player newsletter that just shipped.

[Swanky]

That's almost post of the year right there. (after any of my Crazy Monday Polls of course!)

[thelaw88]

These are my two biggest annoyances, glad this has been posted - however it is likely that the majority that need to be reading this won't be on the forum to see it unfortunately. It'll help though, hopefully.

It was also posted as a news story on the website and was linked to in the player newsletter that just shipped.

Just checked my email after posting this, didn't get time to amend my reply- good stuff!

[krunchie]

great post garth

these are all things that happen every single 888pl game i attend without fail


I also notice that they are policed differently by different TD's,
I have one TD at a challenge game that is very strict ( i like strict)
but at my local freeroll the TD is a lot more lax, he tells me that its because he doesnt want to discorage new players, mmmmm right.

[Larx36]

Great post Garth.

I was lucky right from the start having Alex as a TC. He always ran a tight ship and taught the rules of the game plus etiquette to all.

The only downfall is that I witness many occasions of bad etiquette which makes me wonder where these people learn to play. I know most TC's go through certain points in their pre-game speech but unfortunately the people that need to listen most are just too rude to pay attention to the TC. Maybe we need some pretty little picture books for these people .

[John Miller]

Very nice Garth...

I would like to add that TD's / TC's ... depending on where you play, can all benefit from training, in the future When the Australian Foundation of Poker Professionals, (or whatever the ruling body of future poker is) sets up and runs poker tournament training for all TD's across all the different providers.

I know it will have many bridges to build and many obstacles to overcome. but I believe if the poker industry is going to go ahead we need to look at this as a core requirement for the betterment of the game.

Nice start mate...

[bennymacca]

all of those tilt me up the wall.

great post garth

[AJG]

I would also add something under your 'Slow Roll' section, and this can really boil me up when it happens: Being slow rolled by the dealer!
You know when you are allin on the flop, and your opponent turns over a flush draw? And the dealer proceeds to take a good look at the turn before he tables a card that doesnt complete the flush, then stares at the river for a good 3-4 seconds before tabling it.... You just know you opponent made their flush... And its darn annoying! Just get the cards out, no messing around (I see some dealers who like to 'arrange' the 5 board cards out face down then reveal them in funky orders too - also annoying)

Great to draw things like this to people's attention though Garth, even for those who don't or only accidentally transgress ettiquite...