Previously suspended player permitted to play in 888PL GF

[pundies]

The only concern and point I keep coming back to is that allowing him to play does breach the rules as outlined. That is the only thing that does not sit well with me.

If thats the case then the solution is simple. Tell offending player bad luck, he can play the next one.

Solution only affects one player and no possible inference of impropriety.

CT

I agree with CT's comment.

[Larx36]

This had been an interesting discussion right throughout.

When I first heard of this I put on my Golf Club Captain hat and thought to myself "Go to the bible (rule book) and your answer lies there".Unfortunately the GF was non-existant when the rules were first drawn up leaving a slight grey area.

Impossible to cater for everyones wants and needs here.

I guess if the player had something like a life ban on his/her head for the GF he/she would surely be on their best behaviour. If they play up it may make 888pl look a little silly but not as silly as the player would look as they are escorted out of the GF $500 poorer.

IMO I say let them pay their $500, give him/her a seat and let us take their chips.

[gundog]

In a nutshell penelty served let him play.

Now I will qualify why, swearing is not realy that bad of a crime, every venue I have played at there is always someone swearing, and the level of how its handled by TC's varies from venue to venue, rarely do you see a player evicted from the game let alone suspended.

So we have a few barracks lawyers interpereting a rule that is about etiquette, rather than a rule pertaining to cheating, stealing, damaging property or assulting another player, venue staff or 888Pl staff member.

He has paid his entry fee, qualified by playing the required number of games, its a non issue he plays.

[Rileypooh]

hello to all fellow 888pl players who have voiced their opinions on this matter.
i am the player that everybody is talking about.

firstly, i would like to say that i am deeply sorry if i have offended anybody in my times playing poker online or in venue by the use of my language. i am a loud natured person and do not realize how loud i am at times, and i might get a little carried away with stuff and get over excited. but I'm only human. the last 5 months i have been working to become a better poker player and a better person. i have read all of your posts and appreciate your honesty as this will help me become better. i was suspended from playing poker the first time because i had some abusive words to say to another player which wasn't the right thing to do, mind you the other player was the instigator in this and i was brought up to believe that if somebody attacks me in any way or form, that i am able to stand up to myself. the second time i got suspended was because i had copped a bad beat off a mate of mine and we had a loud joke about the hand in question. simply, i got a lil bit carried away and took the joke a bit too far, but there was never any violence from my behavior. the 3 months that i was suspended gave me a lot of time to think about my actions, and believe me when i say that 3 months is a long time away from the thing i love doing, playing poker.

since my suspension was lifted i have played poker again, and have been on my best behavior. i have changed for the better. now if i am allowed to play this gf, for the people that know me well, they will come to realize that i am a changed man.

just quickly, to touch on another matter, i know that there are rules in place for a reason, and respect those rules. but i know for a fact that there are people in this forum that are going to play the gf that i will not name, that have been suspended from 888pl for behavior of a violent nature, and they are allowed to return to 888pl because they have changed their ways, and they are also allowed to participate in the gf.

once again i apologize if i have offended anybody, but all that i am asking is that i did the crime, i did the time, and please let me prove to you that i have changed my ways by letting me play the gf where i am sure i will be thoroughly watched by many.

thanks for letting me have my say, Stewy.

[krunchie]

well said mate

[David]

In a nutshell penelty served let him play.

Whilst I don't care if he plays - no - according to the rules the penalty isn't served.

[AJG]

OK this rule 8.4 or whatever mentions suspensions during a qualifying season.
In the rules governing entry into the GF, is there anything about suspensions (obv if player is currently suspended they can't expect to play), or suspensions during the qualifying period - prev 2 seasons??

If there isnt, then you are not breaking/bending any 888PL rules by allowing him to play...

But, do I understand correctly, that the 888PL has accepted the money for his buyin, but is still debating whether he should be allowed to play it??
If yes has already been said, then its very harsh to now say no...

[Garth Kay]

Hi All,

Well I have actually considered this for some time today and myself and the management team have discussed this issue at some length.

First of all I would like to thank everybody who contributed positively to this thread and discussed their views on the opinion.

I would like to add that in all cases rules established around poker and this league are not generated/created for the express purpose of punishment but rather for education and the safety of our players. In all decisions we make and all disciplinary actions we take we have the best interests of the playing body at heart.

It is therefore a decision of this management team (namely myself, Michael Ratnik, Tim Harry and Adam Hancock) that this player be permitted to participate in the upcoming Grand Final (irrespective of the rules) as this decision is made in the spirit and the fairness of the league with the following considerations:

1.) The player has served his suspension, a penalty that was strictly enforced and a penalty that went well beyond the maximum for his breach. The etiquette breach was that of Swearing and did not involve any form of abuse or derogatory comments aimed at another player.

2.) The rule that people have referred to was established when all finals were linked to a qualifying season; we believe that the qualification period for the Grand Final (and the mechanics around generating the prize pool of the GF) lead this event t special considerations over and above this rule. This fault rests solely at the feet of the administrators of the league for not updating the rule book to keep up with the evolution of this league and it's associated competition practice. This rule will be rewritten and rectified to avoid future confusion.

3.) It is the firm belief of all of us that the player in question has acted in an honorable and remorseful manner and has modified his behaviour to be an accepted member of the 888PL community. It should also be stated that this player had stated to me that he would abide by any decision made on our part with no complaint as he understood the decision we had to make.

4.) Past history has shown that when we believe a player has served a justifiable penalty and has shown true remorse then they become accepted and positive contributors to this league. We have not acted incorrectly in rescinding past decisions before and at all times have the results been the most profitable for all parties involved.

Upon further investigation we find that there are four players who should not be participating in this Grand Final based on past statements, suspensions and rulings but these past actions have been overturned based on a change in character and remorse shown.

I firmly now believe that we are making the correct decision in the true nature of poker, the players and the league in general. I know this may upset a few here and probably more out there, but every person should be given the opportunity to prove they are a changed person (as stewy above) if my past actions were used to judge my suitability to lead this company and league, or any team of people for that matter, then I would be found to be wanting and probably would not have been given the opportunity to be the person I am now, sitting here writing this message.

Poker, and the events surrounding it, should never be guided by a set of hard and fast rules but rather by the people involved, the spirit in which the game is played and the fairest result possible. Whilst it may be difficult to translate this into a real world social/legal situation it is something that must always be considered and discussed.

I thank you all for your input and in time I hope to see implemented a player tribunal where it is a senior peer of you all that delivers this message and adjudicates on matters of this nature. I think we have seen here how level headed discussion can result in all parties feeling justified in their complaints and hearing.

I know the original complainants are not happy with me bringing this to the public and feel that they have been targeted and for that I apologise, perhaps could have handled that better, but your peers have listened and it is a fair 50/50 split amongst some of the league senior members; in that case it was the three people paid to administer the league who have the final decision.

I will state that if all players had overwhelmingly supported the no participation vote then my decision would have been drastically different, as always the player's vote and comments will often decide the direction we take and the decisions we make.

Thank you for your time!

[bennymacca]

fair enough garth - i dont think anyone can argue with that

[Rileypooh]

would just like to say thankyou for the chance to prove myself and i will not let you down.