does the dream team points scoring need to be changed

[666HARPS666]

g'day Garth
Quick question , last season I got points for placing in the MQF , This time i got Nada . Game was 11/10
Are we supposed to get points for these games ?

cheers [_])

[Garth Kay]

g'day Garth
Quick question , last season I got points for placing in the MQF , This time i got Nada . Game was 11/10
Are we supposed to get points for these games ?

cheers [_])

{shrugs}

At this stage I am pretty much done and I have everyone off except for my state manager; I really cant be bothered looking into this.

I will anyways and find out what is going on.

[Garth Kay]

g'day Garth
Quick question , last season I got points for placing in the MQF , This time i got Nada . Game was 11/10
Are we supposed to get points for these games ?

cheers [_])

How about:

Hi Garth,

There was an MQF held last Saturday and I think there is an issue as it isn't showing up on the website; and hence I am not getting any points for them.

Can you have a look at this for me please?

Matt is on leave for another week yet and I will get him to fix this up ASAP.

[666HARPS666]

No rush Sir .
It can wait till you have staff back ,
Thanks Mate

[Garth Kay]

If I'm too subtle above it just means that these games are not recorded in our system at this time and will be up in a week or so with results.

[pmk]

Forgive my late foray into this thread, and if I'm repeating points already made forgive that too

So we should punish players that play in a region and at venues that HEAVILY support 888PL? And they in turn (the players) heavily support the venues and 888PL. I don't think so.

the Dream Team is only a goal for a very small minority of our player base

By making the competition for the DT top heavy you are actually punishing ALL BUT an even smaller minority in Qld. ESPECIALLY now that you’ve halved the payout structure for the DT 50% of the DT payouts will be Qld.

You are also actively punishing the smaller venues MUCH more than you would the larger venues. Who wants to play a small venue if it won’t do anything to their average. Oh but that’s right... only a handful of players chase points. If we run with your assertion (most players I know are chasing points) then the number chasing DT or state points might actually increase if you made it fair.

I can’t see how anyone can possibly say that the current DT/points structure is “fair” anyway? Even if you had a hypothetical player in SA who was so good (and lucky) that he/she won every big venue in SA. It is a mathematical impossibility for them to win the DT. On what planet could this possibly be considered fair?

The “biggest” venue in SA is Parahills which used to be 100+ but seems to be < 100 of late. That is ONE venue with ONE game per week. The Qld league has 3 or 4 venues per week that have TWICE that number (apparently).

based on a "perceived" imbalance in the competition.

Perceived? It’s a mathematically proven imbalance.

Anyway, I must apologise if I’m incorrect in my cynicism Garth, but the “protection” of the large venues sounds more like more players @ one venue = more $$ for 888PL and bugger the players and the smaller venues.

I can understand the business motivation for favouring and pandering to the larger venues but if you TRULY wanted a fair and equitable chase for DT/State leader points then you would normalise the scoring so that even those is remote areas of Australia actually have a reasonable chance to win DT cash based on poker skill rather than according to graphical location. Now that would be a great competition!

The issue that there is an imbalance is palpable: The solution is blinding simple. So I can only surmise that if the grab for cash is NOT the prime motivation (lets assume I'm wrong) for the imbalance then the only other explanation is that you don’t understand the concept of normalisation or know how to do it.

Unless I’m missing something then I can see no other reasons for your reluctance to correct this very observable imbalance.

As an average player (some may say well below average ) I certainly won't be trying to rank on the DT (this equates to not going out and spending money at venues) simply because there is no possibility of me coming within cooee of the money. What's the point in playing seriously? I just rock up to 8 games (doesn't matter what size) NOT STAMP UP, pay my $50 and I'm in the semi. Why waste time and money on chasing some improbable and esoteric notion of DT points when they are FAR beyond the reach of mere mortal players?

I would suggest that I am not alone in this thinking. I'm sure I could name 20-30 people who would actively chase DT points if it were achievable and I'd go so far as to say that your TDs could name MANY MANY more (just in SA). If you want to convert the DT support into venue/888PL income then the imbalance is actively hurting the league. (IMHO)

Sometimes you have to look at what motivates your players rather than what motivates you....

[Garth Kay]

Forgive my late foray into this thread, and if I'm repeating points already made forgive that too

You're forgiven!

By making the competition for the DT top heavy you are actually punishing ALL BUT an even smaller minority in Qld. ESPECIALLY now that you’ve halved the payout structure for the DT 50% of the DT payouts will be Qld.

The payouts have been halved for the scoreboard BUT the removed funds have been moved into a pool to put our DREAM TEAM into Casino based events. $10K on the scoreboard and $10K in casino entries, airfares and accom for the THREE Dream Team members.

You are also actively punishing the smaller venues MUCH more than you would the larger venues. Who wants to play a small venue if it won’t do anything to their average. Oh but that’s right... only a handful of players chase points. If we run with your assertion (most players I know are chasing points) then the number chasing DT or state points might actually increase if you made it fair.

Yes Pete, the 20 - 40 players that you know may be actively seeking Score Board points but I suggest next time you play at Para Hills, or any other venue for that matter, ask everyone at the table what they are there playing for. The majority of responses will be along the lines: "I'm just here for some fun" or "my mates and I always come out to have a game". Very few people participating in the League (in SA/QLD and VIC) are chasing wins and big pay days. If they score some large dollars it is generally a by product of their love of an ENTERTAINMENT product, not a gaming one.

[quote="pmk"]I can’t see how anyone can possibly say that the current DT/points structure is “fair” anyway? Even if you had a hypothetical player in SA who was so good (and lucky) that he/she won every big venue in SA. It is a mathematical impossibility for them to win the DT. On what planet could this possibly be considered fair?[quote]

Please provide your 'fairer' solution? And can I also state that winning into the Dream Team is not the same as winning the Dream Team Scoreboard. You need to clarify what point you are trying to make here.

[quote="pmk"]Perceived? It’s a mathematically proven imbalance.[quote]

How is it an imbalance? Because all of a sudden there is a region that is stronger than anywhere else with 6+ games per week drawing an average of 80+? Noone was complaining when the Dream Team scoreboard was full of South Australians. We could start discussing geographic "imbalances" as well; many Adelaide players have access to more games in a 20 minute driver than a Melbourne resident does. We operate 60 Games in the greater Melbourne area and 80 games in the greater Adelaide area, yet Melbourne has almost four times the population and suburban sprawl than Adelaide.

[quote="pmk"]Anyway, I must apologise if I’m incorrect in my cynicism Garth, but the “protection” of the large venues sounds more like more players @ one venue = more $$ for 888PL and bugger the players and the smaller venues. [quote]

Apology accepted - because there is no financial gain for us whatsoever if these venues receive 4 players or 160.

[quote="pmk"]I can understand the business motivation for favouring and pandering to the larger venues but if you TRULY wanted a fair and equitable chase for DT/State leader points then you would normalise the scoring so that even those is remote areas of Australia actually have a reasonable chance to win DT cash based on poker skill rather than according to graphical location. Now that would be a great competition![quote]

So then we award equitable points whether you win a 20 man event or 120 man event? How is that Fair and equitable to the person who (in everyone's mind) achieved more by beating out 119 players instead of 19? How is designing a system like that all about poker skill?

[quote="pmk"]The issue that there is an imbalance is palpable: The solution is blinding simple. So I can only surmise that if the grab for cash is NOT the prime motivation (lets assume I'm wrong) for the imbalance then the only other explanation is that you don’t understand the concept of normalisation or know how to do it. [quote]

Please Pete, i am completely ignorant on this matter, enlighten me and the majority of the forum members on this "blinding simple" solution.

[quote="pmk"]Sometimes you have to look at what motivates your players rather than what motivates you.... [quote]

And out of all of your comments this is the most insulting. What other league do you see that activelly communicates on a daily basis with their player base (through this forum). Every time I contemplate a change to any facet of the competition or league I bring it here for discussion. What other league does that?

I have a greater understanding (than most) of the requirements of this league as well as the business requirements of FHG and i think I do a fantastic job of ensuring both requirements are met (as closely as possible). In short 888PL is a business first and foremost but I still (personally) feel that I have an ethical and moral obligation to ensure I provide the best possible product to players.

In short Pete, I get the feeling that you breezed over this thread and did not read any of the possible solutions I proposed and you just wanted to jump on here and flame away. At no time do you offer anything constructive and decide that insulting me is the right way to make your point.

Cheers and DIAGF (can't forget the smiley, that means it's not really offensive right??)

[19stevo71]

dreamteam is a total WOFTAM if u play regional vic.

[gundog]

dreamteam is a total WOFTAM if u play regional vic.

Stevo its not only regional Vic but everywhere where venues attract <30-35 players, however as I have previously stated I think <10% of all registered players actually know of or even care about the DT, therefore whats its real relervance?

The question everyone should be asking is what 888pl/FHG doing to attract back those lost players........or should the focus turn back to the players that turn up week in week out to support their local venue, that want to play with their mates.

Rather than debate states, points etc etc for DT why not post what you want from 888pl/FHG.

Me I prefer to see the DT being made up for the top 5 players all major live events and no online component( ie points should be allocated from last to 1st, if you win in GF1 and crap early in GF2 you may or may not have sufficent points to make the top 5) and if state or regional finals are re-instated then points for these event should calculated in a similar fashion, DT must be based on consistant performance in major events only, excluding online events.

Bring back the regional finals but increase the size of the regions.

[19stevo71]

id like to see the top 5 from each state play off online,not this 100 plus runner load of crap thats happening this season,this would surely be fairer for all players ,i for one would play more venue games,i finished fairly high online but it wasnt worth playing venues,it seems like a simple & fair solution to have a 25 player final online with all 25 places with some sort of reward.what do u think?