Poker Seminars and Staking available - but it's up to you!

[gmatical]

do you think that 888pl should stick to just being a pub poker league for the purely recreational player or should they try and cater for everyone from the recreational player to the semi-professional?

personally, i think there is the scope for them to incorporate every type of non professional, and i think they are doing a good job of it so far.

I think 888pl is almost at the optimal level. I think the 'recreational' players should be catered for in the 'State Finals'- which they have been for the most part, although prize monies have dropped abit - but this is more by tickets being added to build GF numbers.

The GF (though I have never been to one so can not really comment) should be more of an 'open' event - this will swell numbers & prize pools to make the tourney a 'premier' event on the Aust Poker calender.

I dont want to hijack this thread, I just wanted to put across the point that i think the 'pro grind' is not a huge driver for 888pl players & it may be hard to really make a backing scheme work (unless perhaps it is being driven by someone who is currently a full time players who takes on a protege & documents their results.)

I agree that it is 'worth it' and that 888pl players should be 'afforded the chance to be the best they can be' & Seminars & education are a good thing tho - the more the better.

I hope more people answer the 10 questions to see if something can get off the ground in this area.

[madali]

Loved your post Gmatical it was so honest and contained so many valid points that I lost count. I love these discussions as it helps get out differing opinions on so much and often leads to healthy debates which I also enjoy. I am usually not a fan of participating in forums ( hard to believe I know but true) but have been addicted to this one since day one due to the excellent and differing points of view I read from so many.

One thing that bothers me in games I do play on 888 is the amount of players who berate bad players about there play. Usually doesn't come from those on here but all that ever goes through my head is "keep notes and profit from there play". As I heard someone say recently "Don't tap on the glass people "

[AceLosesKing]

Just to preface, I have not played 888pl online, or poker for that matter, for a number of months. All I've done is attend the odd 888pl game at my local, with a few home games thrown in.

1.) What common mistakes do you see 888PL players make?
Starting hand selection, position, stack sizes/shove ranges.

2.) What mistakes do you think you often make (please post hands if your up for it).
Not taking into account how forward the entire 888pl players have moved since the leagues inception (when playing in hands against them). Not realising (and combating against) the value that they put on certain hands/boards etc.

Not detaching myself during a hand, taking a step back and considering all the options. When I'm watching mates play, I often see the mistakes that are being made and can easily identify them. I need to not be on autopilot so much when playing.

3.) What common phrasings or poker nomenclature is lost on you?
Nomenclature, I'd say ;D

4.) Where do you want poker to take you? Do you dream of playing the WSOP/AM?
I'm happy where I am now. A few years back I had pipe dreams of one day playing these events. For a while, poker has been recreational for me. I would certainly love to play said events, but I'm happy playing online now and then/the odd tournament at the Cas. I do want to give the JHDS a crack at some point, though.

5.) Do you set yourself targets?
No, like I said I hardly play poker anymore.

6.) Are you self taught or have you studied any literature?
Self taught, I have read a few chapters on poker books, but all of what I've learned has been from discussion with friends/poker strat on forums like 2+2. This forum has been a great help.

7.) If you could ask three questions of any pro or pros; who would the pro be and what would the questions be?
What room number Liv Boeree is staying in and if she would like some company tonight.

8.) If you were a succesful player and had the bankroll would you quit working and play full time?
Yes. Travelling the circuit/playing professionally would be awesome. It might get tired after a few years, but with the skill + bankroll to do so, I'd be very keen.

9.) Do you practice bankroll management?
When I played, I tried to, but in the end I didn't. Its the most important skill IMO.

10.) Do you play any other games apart from 888PL, if so where and with who (online or live)?
No, just home games. I find the other leagues to be sub par compared to 888pl.

[Sinitster]

your not a wanabee benny the cunt

much

there's a fine line between wanabee and neverwillbee.

I'll put my hand up and say I'm a neverwillbee cos I don't wanabee, when I play it's entertainment and don't take it too seriously love busting big pockets with 2/4 off.

Are you related to Sinitster at all Gundog?

Hrmmnnnn ...

[Hagar76]

Just noticed this thread so thought i'd throw in my answers and see what comes back to me.
1) Common mistakes i see 888pl players make would be not understanding table position, over betting in obvious situations and my real bug bear "i always play that its my favorite hand"
2) My biggest mistake is not attacking pots early and letting turn and river cards fall when i should have bet more post flop and ended the hand there
3)Think i'm pretty much on top of it
4)In an ideal world i would like to take a crack at some big events, the AM would be first
on my radar then go from there.
5)Being a majority micro stakes player targets are not really there.
6)Self taught read nothing, watch a bit of poker on tv (espn etc) just to learn how the better players value hands and respond to other players styles can say it has been informative and improved my play to a degree
7)Not sure i would want to ask anything of a pro cause they play their own way and i have to play mine
8)If i was a succesful player with the bankroll for sure i would quit work, reality is that you would need to be earning at least double what you would normally make in your regular job as the risk and return % is not something you could not control like a normal job, i guess from my point of view my kids eating and paying for the everyday is the determining factor. Which brings us to staking, for myself i don't think i'm close to that level of poker play yet, but what i have noticed is a lot of shall we say fringe players are coached/mentored by pros or established players, and i think this would be the next step for me and many others, and i don't mean hand discussion etc but selective coaching eg choosing specific tourneys and planning to play them a certain way in order to plug leaks etc followed by proper analysis, from my point of view i see 888pl as being able to become something very unique if enough people can take it seriously and we can get away from the shane warne celebrity type and get some real pros on board and utilise the MP brand to keep it as Australian as possible.I think maybe i got off topic a bit there lol.
9) I manage my bankroll on a micro level as it all its at.
10)I do play online at the usuall supects sites eg Pokerstar Fulltilt but only to pass time not really that serious etc but nowhere live as there is nothing near me worth travelling to play.
On a side note i'd be keen to sit and learn more seminar style.
Thats me done

[BigPete33]

1.) What common mistakes do you see 888PL players make?
- You know that phrase "if you can't say something nice then don't say anything?", well I've never much cared for that but I think I'll just shut up this time. There's seriously too much to mention, from a lot of players who really should know better by now. Harsh, but factual.
2.) What mistakes do you think you often make (please post hands if your up for it).
- Also too many to mention (fair's fair after all). Expecting someone to realise the mess they've got themselves into and fold their hand is probably number one though. I should definitely know better, they're not folding.
3.) What common phrasings or poker nomenclature is lost on you?
- Fine with it, have to say though that so much of it often gets over-relied upon and used as a "fact" in a situation rather than simply one piece of a larger puzzle. eg: having odds to call really isn't the end of that train of thought, there's an awful lot more to consider and some of it is surprisingly obvious regardless of your poker knowledge.
4.) Where do you want poker to take you? Do you dream of playing the WSOP/AM?
- I dream of having the time to try Really have to give up a lot to attempt any decent sort of dedication.
5.) Do you set yourself targets?
- Yes.
6.) Are you self taught or have you studied any literature?
- A lot of information from my friends on here, some information from literature, also a lot of finding out the hard way.
7.) If you could ask three questions of any pro or pros; who would the pro be and what would the questions be?
- Q1 would be directed to any pro with an attitude problem... "were you well off before you started playing or did you actually earn your keep the hard way?" Q2 would be directed to any pro in the US who is approx 21 years old.. "how long have you actually been playing legally for and how long have you been playing in total?" Q3 would be to Clonie Gowan and would be censored.
8.) If you were a succesful player and had the bankroll would you quit working and play full time?
- Seems like a viscous circle to me. To call yourself a successful player and to have worked up that bankroll you'd need to have quit working and be playing full time, but to quit working and play full time you need the bankroll to start with. Would I do it? Not full-time. I'd pick and choose when I wanted to play and would have my finger in some other pies as well to keep the income rolling in.
9.) Do you practice bankroll management?
- Damn straight I do. I think you're a retard if you don't. It's absolutely rule#1 if you even slightly care about what you're doing.
10.) Do you play any other games apart from 888PL, if so where and with who (online or live)?
- No, not anymore. I have some pretty severe time restraints nowadays.

[jasonbling36]

1.) What common mistakes do you see 888PL players make? I would have to say Predictability and an inability to go past a level 1 thought process. I would say 80 to 90% of current players play each hand range the same way now as they did years ago when npl/888pl was started making it easy for those who have played with these players before and have a higher level of thought process to put them on almost exact hand ranges and then they wonder why they dont get paid off when they hit there hands. The level One thinking of 'oh i have ace jack suited but ill call an all in to a 4 bet shove' without any thought to the other peoples hand ranges and tight aggressive image just astounds and is a definiate weakness the majority of 888 players have.

2.) What mistakes do you think you often make (please post hands if your up for it). I would say my biggest mistake come during a long session where i have played with the same players for 8 or 9 hours and the tightest nitiest player on the table double barrel continuates the flop and turn and i tank and my initial read and instict is fold but my ego and little voice in my head that im trying to shut out decides 'come on make a hero call he might be bluffing' and i call off 2 or 3 hundred dollars and of course im only probably good 5% of the time if that. i have lately been able to counter this for the most part by making a rule for myself that 'if in doubt chuck them out' and have found my success rate to have increased significantly.

What common phrasings or poker nomenclature is lost on you? probably the word nomenclature id say lol

4.) Where do you want poker to take you? Do you dream of playing the WSOP/AM? I would love to play in the world series in the next 2-3 years even just a few of the smaller events and depending on my results whether or not my bankroll could afford the 10 and a half k buy in for the main event but of course the main event if the dream. I have already set aside 3k for next january's Aussie millions so ill play a couple of events there and again depending on if i can cash i hope to play the main event, obviously if i can satilite in even better


5.) Do you set yourself targets? yes however i have two sets of targets/goals one is what i have listed in the previous question and obviously become a long term winning player. but the other goals and targets i have involve continualy trying to better improve my game be it from bank roll management, discipline, concentration, my thought processes during hands, heads up play etc. i think that these goals are more important because as we know we can play perfect poker and still having a losing session, so i think the psychological goals are more important so that we can achieve the long term finanical goals associated with poker

Are you self taught or have you studied any literature? i started out learning the game through playing npl and free poker on poker stars but have since been involved in group discussions with players i have through playing at crown and have found this great to see other peoples opinions and poker life lessons, have also read probably 5 or 6 books, from poker tells, poker maths, poker strategy, poker psycology. i hate reading but reading about poker i love and find so interesting.

7.) If you could ask three questions of any pro or pros; who would the pro be and what would the questions be?Jonathan dohammel: how can you call Off Nearly your whole stack with jacks on that board against Affleck there come mate he has aces as a minimum there if not a set, you were crushed and you knew it. phil hellmouth- how have you been so successful in being able to continually adjust your game to match the online super aggressive way poker is being played now and still be so successful eg 2011 wsop. Phil Ivey- Can I have a high 5? your the man lol.

[jasonbling36]

8.) If you were a succesful player and had the bankroll would you quit working and play full time? I have actually done this about a year ago. I had a starting bank roll of 10k and and played 2/3 at crown casino for 6 months 4 days a week 10 hours a day. And loved it. after 6 months my bank role was 17k and i had used to "pay myself" 600 a week for bills, rent food etc so id say that over 6 months i made about 20k. thats not to say that every time i went i had a winning session in fact i had a 3 week stretch where i lost 6k and was doubting myself and thought id made a big mistake but thats poker and the huge variance associated with the game. I think that the lower limits at live games are quite easy to crak if you have good discipline and good bank role management as at all times there are 3-4 fish on the table where you can make your money. i however stoped playing full time as my fiance and i are wanting to buy a house and obviously a bank wont give you a loan when poker is your proffesion lol but i do hope you go back to it in the next year or 2. was it fun all the time hell no it was just as mentally draining and stressful as any other full time job but i loved it. i would recommond it to a lot of you frequant forum posters as long as you have the commitment and bank role managment and it wont send you bankrupt if you fail good times!!
8.) If you were a succesful player and had the bankroll would you quit working and play full time? apart from understanding the game of poker eg maths, ranging opponants hands, discipline etc bank role management i think is the most important part to being a successful poker player if you dont have good bank role management skills you will almost certainly go broke due to the high variance associated with poker, to hear someone say i play every day and never lose is the biggest crock of S'**T i have ever heard and if you cant adjust your game selection to match your bank role then yeah you'll go broke for sure.


10.) Do you play any other games apart from 888PL, if so where and with who (online or live)? At the moment crown maybe once a fortnight and love it and of course home cash games cant go past those. dont play a lot online much prefer the interaction of live play when you pick up on a few live tells for one player live they may as well show you there cards i love that challange.

Cheers

[BigPete33]

Bugger me if that's not the best opening couple of posts ever.

Lovely work!

[Nathan Butler]

1.) What common mistakes do you see 888PL players make?
Hero calling (guilty), Tilting - Very common, Overplaying premium hands - betting people out of the pot rather than maximising their potential gain. Being angry about a suck out, most people are ignorant of variance and hate seeing an opponent call their AK w/ A5. Me I love it, win or lose.

2.) What mistakes do you think you often make (please post hands if your up for it).
Overly tilting/being indifferent to the results/quality of my play in micro-stakes/games I don't credit with the appropriate or required respect. I also tend to call off in these types of games to see if my reads are accurate, even when I think I am behind and it means more tournament life. Even though these leaks are known issues w/ my game, I still let them into my when I am trying in a tournament I want to win.

3.) What common phrasings or poker nomenclature is lost on you?
None really. I am confident and well versed is most slang, lingo, memes that revolved around poker. Somethings that do affect my game as stated above are things like, calling certain tournaments "donkaments" generally lead me to playing poorly as I identify that tournament as low value or low priority to succeed in.

4.) Where do you want poker to take you? Do you dream of playing the WSOP/AM?
I would love to play in a WSOP/AM event at least once, hopefully more than once even. 5 years ago I would have even had the ambitions to grind for my entry, now not so much. I really enjoy playing cash tables for entertainment and would love a ring/bracelet but I no longer consider poker career orientated ambition, more of a reward if my other ambitions are successful.

5.) Do you set yourself targets?
Don't lose. - but then again, sometimes I am out to loose...

6.) Are you self taught or have you studied any literature?
Little from column A,B&C. I have taught much of what I know to myself, I have read many books, viewed many video and regularly collaborate with friends about hands, scenarios, plays. etc.

7.) If you could ask three questions of any pro or pros; who would the pro be and what would the questions be?
I really only have one question I would want to ask, I want a genuinely honest response for.

1. - Hellmuth/Ivey - How much of everything that you do at a poker table is truly deliberate? - Are you both really on a plane of existence beyond our grasp or has the media's sensationalism trained us to think our poker skills (which may be great) will never be enough?

8.) If you were a succesful player and had the bankroll would you quit working and play full time?
Doubtful. I may enjoy it fleetingly but I couldn't imaging the lifestyle being very friendly towards starting a family or be fair on the needs of your partner whom may have career ambitions that do not match. I personally would like my financial success grounded in something with a stronger foundation that then affords me the freedom to travel/play as I please rather than via necessity.

9.) Do you practice bankroll management?
Once upon a time. Not now, I play for entertainment/recreations and if I win I buy pretty things.

10.) Do you play any other games apart from 888PL, if so where and with who (online or live)?
I am playing a lot of mirco-stakes Pokerstars tourneys at the moment. The play is soft and they have very good GTDs ranging from 1.5 - 10K and run them very frequently. I suits my needs ATM and I am attempting to weed out the leaks I have mentioned above.