Crown Cash Conundrum

[krunchie]

Ok my thinking may be a little warped here but even with a big hand like kings I want as few players in the pot as possible. The more players in the pot the less chance I have of winning. Sure I want a caller and I know that by pricing other players into the pot you will increase the pot size but your risk also increases. I would much rather be able to isolate the players and therefore be able to narrow the range of hands that have called. Maybe I am being extremely nitty but I like to reduce my risk as much as possible.

ahmen sister

[gmatical]

There was alot going on in the Poker room, its easy to miss a few things here and there - not to fussed about a little oversight.

while you have comments like this to say im not going to waste my time geting into long discusions on quite high level topics

you might miss a few things

Excuse me for not being a robot.

No ones forcing you to waste your valuable time, but why are you on a poker forum, in the hand discussion section - if you are not prepared to have a bit of back and forth about your/mine/our thoughts on poker?

[krunchie]

because you havent listened to a word that has said about your line yet, so why should i bother now

how about you give me an excuse and actually post something that makes me think you will take what i have to say seriously

its actually making sense why none of the real poker thinkers have bothered replying

[gmatical]

Ok my thinking may be a little warped here but even with a big hand like kings I want as few players in the pot as possible. The more players in the pot the less chance I have of winning. Sure I want a caller and I know that by pricing other players into the pot you will increase the pot size but your risk also increases. I would much rather be able to isolate the players and therefore be able to narrow the range of hands that have called. Maybe I am being extremely nitty but I like to reduce my risk as much as possible.

Do you think that having 3 players investing $41 in a $1/$2 game pre-flop narrows ranges adequetly?

8 players is a concern, 3 is fine I believe.

[gmatical]

because you havent listened to a word that has said about your line yet, so why should i bother now

Sigh, my line to this point is not what I want input on, its the action on the flop I asked the question about.

how about you give me an excuse and actually post something that makes me think you will take what i have to say seriously

I find this an odd statement

its actually making sense why none of the real poker thinkers have bothered replying

Wow, nice swipe at those who have contributed to this post!

[madali]

Ok my thinking may be a little warped here but even with a big hand like kings I want as few players in the pot as possible. The more players in the pot the less chance I have of winning. Sure I want a caller and I know that by pricing other players into the pot you will increase the pot size but your risk also increases. I would much rather be able to isolate the players and therefore be able to narrow the range of hands that have called. Maybe I am being extremely nitty but I like to reduce my risk as much as possible.

Do you think that having 3 players investing $41 in a $1/$2 game pre-flop narrows ranges adequetly?

8 players is a concern, 3 is fine I believe.

I still would reraise and try and get heads up with the best odds of winning. Also if he is willing to call the $41 where do you think he draws the line at calling $60, $80, $100?

Just out of curiousity what hand did the guy have (both the button and the mp player)?

side note: On the flop I fold

[maccatak11]

Gmat, you haven't mentioned anything about the ranges that you believe either player might have. What hands do you think the original raiser would raise with? What hands will the other player have that mean he will play the way he did??

It's only then that we might be able to say whether it is a clear fold or whatever.

[bennymacca]

the problem with this hand is that you have taken a very non-standard line preflop, and you are now asking us to construct ranges for other players and work out what our "standard play" will be on the flop. this is bloody hard to do with your preflop action.

KK is not really a hand we need to isolate with, bloating the pot with the maximum # of players is a good situation, forcing out fish is not so good.

imo you are not isolating here, you are raising for value. those are two very different concepts. isolating is where we want a good player to fold and a fish to call. usually we do this in position to win the pot uncontested when the fish misses. but in this case i think it is straight value. fish wont be forced out when they have TT+ and this is the range that we get maximum value from

if, on the other hand, we let the fish into the pot with some sort of suited trash or ace rag type hand, which fish love, then it becomes a massive reverse implied odds scenario for us, where we either win a small pot, because they always fold when they dont hit the flop, or they smash the flop and we either stack off and lose or we have to fold.

so my advice here would be to think about what range we get maximum value from, and what ranges we are up against with certain plays.

Isn't a good play a good play live or online? What is your reasoning here?

live $1/$2 and online 25c/50c for instance, are to massively different kettle of fish, and its due to the different levels of aggression. the reason raise and 3bet sizes are generally smaller online is that there is a lot more light 3betting and 4betting going on. as a result, raise sizes have gotten smaller so that there is still room to move, even when 3 or 4 bets are going in preflop.

by contrast, live play is almost universally passive until you get to the 2/5 level. you will find the odd aggressive 2/3 game, and 99.9% of 1/2 games are extremely passive.

as a result, we can make our raises larger - both for getting more value out of worse hands that will call, and narrowing the field to avoid reverse implied odds scenarios. we will also basically never get 3bet light so we dont have to worry about the few extra BB we put in preflop.

8 players is a concern, 3 is fine I believe.

again, it all depends on what they actually call with. if you are letting players call with 69s then you are just asking for trouble, especially if you are out of position like you are in this hand.

Sigh, my line to this point is not what I want input on, its the action on the flop I asked the question about.

it is extremely hard to comment on given preflop action. in any event though, you have been told repeatedly that check-fold is probably best but still dont seem to think that is the right play.



hope that helps.

[madali]

the problem with this hand is that you have taken a very non-standard line preflop, and you are now asking us to construct ranges for other players and work out what our "standard play" will be on the flop. this is bloody hard to do with your preflop action.

KK is not really a hand we need to isolate with, bloating the pot with the maximum # of players is a good situation, forcing out fish is not so good.

imo you are not isolating here, you are raising for value. those are two very different concepts. isolating is where we want a good player to fold and a fish to call. usually we do this in position to win the pot uncontested when the fish misses. but in this case i think it is straight value. fish wont be forced out when they have TT+ and this is the range that we get maximum value from

if, on the other hand, we let the fish into the pot with some sort of suited trash or ace rag type hand, which fish love, then it becomes a massive reverse implied odds scenario for us, where we either win a small pot, because they always fold when they dont hit the flop, or they smash the flop and we either stack off and lose or we have to fold.

so my advice here would be to think about what range we get maximum value from, and what ranges we are up against with certain plays.

Isn't a good play a good play live or online? What is your reasoning here?

live $1/$2 and online 25c/50c for instance, are to massively different kettle of fish, and its due to the different levels of aggression. the reason raise and 3bet sizes are generally smaller online is that there is a lot more light 3betting and 4betting going on. as a result, raise sizes have gotten smaller so that there is still room to move, even when 3 or 4 bets are going in preflop.

by contrast, live play is almost universally passive until you get to the 2/5 level. you will find the odd aggressive 2/3 game, and 99.9% of 1/2 games are extremely passive.

as a result, we can make our raises larger - both for getting more value out of worse hands that will call, and narrowing the field to avoid reverse implied odds scenarios. we will also basically never get 3bet light so we dont have to worry about the few extra BB we put in preflop.

8 players is a concern, 3 is fine I believe.

again, it all depends on what they actually call with. if you are letting players call with 69s then you are just asking for trouble, especially if you are out of position like you are in this hand.

Sigh, my line to this point is not what I want input on, its the action on the flop I asked the question about.

it is extremely hard to comment on given preflop action. in any event though, you have been told repeatedly that check-fold is probably best but still dont seem to think that is the right play.



hope that helps.

This post is why you are the master benny the cunt and why we love to read you take on hands

[krunchie]

see i told you there is people better suited to explain these concepts

mind you i think malidi had done a bang up job, up untill benny the cunt came along