Crown Cash Conundrum

[madali]

see i told you there is people better suited to explain these concepts

mind you i think malidi had done a bang up job, up untill benny the cunt came along

Thanks Krunchie means a lot. You were not doing a bad job yourself
Still think benny the cunt is one of the masters here at explaining the wisdom around playing hands a certain way.

[gmatical]

Gmat, you haven't mentioned anything about the ranges that you believe either player might have. What hands do you think the original raiser would raise with? What hands will the other player have that mean he will play the way he did??

It's only then that we might be able to say whether it is a clear fold or whatever.

His original raise suggested varying paint combos, middling aces and most pairs, didnt showdown suited connectors during my time on the table.
The shove narrowed it down to pairs and decent aces, maybe even KQs.

I would put the other guy on a similar range (after calling the $41) possibly with more aces and again unlikely to have low suited connectors or gappers based on hands shown during the session.

[gmatical]

it is extremely hard to comment on given preflop action. in any event though, you have been told repeatedly that check-fold is probably best but still dont seem to think that is the right play.



hope that helps.

I have at no stage have I said fold is the wrong play, I just thought it might have been an opportunity to discuss post flop action on tricky boards, regardless of how we have arrived at the situation.

Merits or re-raise on flop? Merits of check call and assess turn cards.

Not every situation is cut and dry, tough spots occour and their discussion have merit.

Instead I was greeted with criticism of pre-flop action, garbage unexplained sentences with some welcomed input sprinkled in

see i told you there is people better suited to explain these concepts

I shudder to think what life would be like if i did not have the ability to voice my own thoughts and need another to act as my mouthpiece. Although I suspect it is more a lack of complete understanding masquerading as non-articulate ability.

[bennymacca]

I just thought it might have been an opportunity to discuss post flop action on tricky boards, regardless of how we have arrived at the situation.

its not a tricky board, i mean seriously does he ever not have an ace here?

Merits or re-raise on flop? Merits of check call and assess turn cards.

raising would be completely horrible, calling you could possibly argue but i personally think its a sigh fold.



can i ask what you wanted to hear out of this hand?

you made two such massive mistakes preflop that the postflop discussion is relatively moot as you should never find yourself in this situation.

you are trying to get advice to help fix some postflop leak in a situation that would occur basically never.

[BigPete33]

I'd like to say a genuine thank you for reminding me why I never read this section

[gmatical]

its not a tricky board, i mean seriously does he ever not have an ace here?

He didn't have an Ace.

What did I want to hear about the hand? Pro's and con's of a variety of post flop options, a bit of independent thought.

This has degenerated into a bit of a 5hitfight, def not what I was looking for.

Anywho, prob the last hand discussion I will bother with - I hope there are some good youtube vids to comment on or funny pics etc..

[Caleb]

its not a tricky board, i mean seriously does he ever not have an ace here?

He didn't have an Ace.

What did I want to hear about the hand? Pro's and con's of a variety of post flop options, a bit of independent thought.

This has degenerated into a bit of a 5hitfight, def not what I was looking for.

Anywho, prob the last hand discussion I will bother with - I hope there are some good youtube vids to comment on or funny pics etc..

So what did he have?

Post flop options are nearly non-existant here, because of the line you took pre. You've painted yourself into a corner. 99% of the time he has Ax here, you want us to extrapolate based on the theory he doesn't?

If he's betting at the flop with worse than your holdings it's truly terrible, but with the way you've played you have to fold. You said yourself you want value from Ax type hands, so when an Ace flops and the guy leads into you, what is there to discuss?

The entire discussion aspect of this should (quite rightly) focus on pre-flop. There's no need to get so defensive about it.

[bennymacca]

for the last time, you wont get independent thought when everyone is of the same consensus about how poorly you played.

[madali]

its not a tricky board, i mean seriously does he ever not have an ace here?

He didn't have an Ace.

I have played a hand like this and flop was really awful. Me out of position and limited options I have checked only for the guy to push and for me to have to fold. I think he turned over something really stupid like pocket nines or tens and I spent the next 2 days kicking myself for playing soooo badly pre flop ( I think in my case the small stack who was already all in had something like king queen and spiked a queen on the turn to win the hand).

I am sure I am not the only one who has looked back at a hand and thought "wow I played that badly". Still kicking myself about a hand last night. That is poker and if you dont do this you will never learn. But you also need to listen to the advice given by others. I understand that you believe you pre flop play was ok but you have had plenty of people give you alternative reasons to why they believe it is not. I know you asked about you post flop play but sometimes when you put a hand out for discussion things will be pointed out that you had never even thought of. That is the beauty of posting a hand that people can point out things that you may be missing and help you get the best value out of the hand next time ( you may not win but it will be the most plus EV move which is the most important thing as you will win in the long run).

Please gmatical do not take the comments personal they are not supposed to offend but are people trying to help.

[Brett Kay]

BB (Me) $150ish
MP (old guy) $200ish
Button (knew what he was doing, but fairly standard player) $41

MP limps $2
Button raises to $6
SB folds
I raise to $12 (not even noticing the Button Raise, was excited about my KK (black) dealt to me
MP calls $12
Button shoves his remaining $35
I call
MP calls

Pot $124

FLOP

A 8 4

Me Check
MP Bet $24

Me ?????????

Can't remember the suits, rainbow flop tho.

As has been stated before shoving on the flop to isolate seems like the best move.

Going from the flop, why not fire out a 60 - 80 odd cbet to find out where you stand. By checking he can do anything and it limits your entire options because you really have no information here to go off. You can gamble off by shoving and praying that he has no ace, or you can fold and find a better spot with 115 left in your stack and go over what you could have done better.

If you raise to 72-100 odd, you are effectively committing your stack. Once again praying to the poker gods that he has no ace which from the impression you mentioned that he was showing down the goods seems unlikely or that one of 2 outs hit. If you min raise and he shoves, do you fold and have 80 left behind and find another spot meanwhile going on mental tilt because he rolls over 57suited?

Playing passive at 1/2 will always cost you money. You let in the dodgy kind of hands that people like to play or the old 7 2 philosophy kicks in, or the i need to see a flop kind of player gets a look in. By playing a little more agressive you can easily get more money into the pot and make your post flop decisions a lot easier.