Medium/low pocket pairs in low stakes 6max cash games.

[bennymacca]

I am on the micro 6 max grind everyday, usually 3 tables, and the earlier the position i tend to raise slightly less 2.5 - 3 x ...in later pos I might raise a bit more 3-5 x even.

are you sure you don't mean the other way round?

in general, your raises from early position should be bigger and your raises on the button should be smaller, but if everyone is deepstacked it usually doesn't matter that much.

the reasons for a larger raise in EP is that you dont want lots of people to flat behind you. if you make it 2.5x, and 1 person calls, then the button will have really great odds to flat, and the bb probably does as well. so you end up playing multiway pots out of position.

on the other hand, if you ever want to make your raise sizes a bit smaller, then late position is the best place to do it. this is because our ranges are typically wider on the button, because we are utilising our positional advantage. as a result, making a small raise size on the button might be ok because we actually WANT the bb to be calling, because then we can play a pot in position. and because it is smaller, we can play a lot more post flop without bloating the pots. in 100bb deep cash games however, the pot to stack ratios are very small regardless of whether you make it 2.5x to 3.5x, so thats why 3.5x is still standard in cash games.

[BigPete33]

benny the cunt, you were making more sense when you said raise size should be standard.

3x early then down to 2.5x 2.25x or whatever floats your boat, you get the idea.

A raise from early position should in itself effectively be "worth" a larger raise. Having said that, it's going to depend on the quality of the field I would think.

A lot of players will be calling because they can and absolutely have to see a flop or they might just explode.

If you raise smaller from the button you would pretty much be guaranteeing they will all be priced in? I tend to go with the standard raise (size dependant on the blinds) and +1 per limper.

[bennymacca]

If you raise smaller from the button you would pretty much be guaranteeing they will all be priced in?

who are we pricing in?

sorry if it wasn't clear, but i was talking about without limpers.

if you are talking about the blinds, then thats great. a common misconception is that people think we are raising in late position to steal blinds, but in actual fact it is because we want to play lots of pots in position. so its good when the bb calls us, even if we have junk, because it is very easy to play in position.

[BigPete33]

ohh I was picturing ppl who had already limped in and we then raise from the button.

[bennymacca]

ohh I was picturing ppl who had already limped in and we then raise from the button.

sorry mate, i should have made that clearer. yeah i make it standard + 1bb per limper. in cash games, i usually pot it preflop, give or take a small amount. larger if i am out of position or i know that fish will call anyway, and smaller when in position, because you want people calling a little more often given that playing in position postflop is insanely profitable

[jasonbling36]

Yes 2.5 x b/b is to small for cash games usually but i was just using that as an example. however the main point i was trying to make earlier is that rather then thinking "how should i play this hand" "what is the right way to play this hand" "how big should i raise" we first need to size up all the players on the table what level thinkers are they are they loose what is their three bet percentage. once we have this part to the question answered we can progress to raise sizing or hand strategy.

An example of this is. i had a hand a while back where i had pocket 4's under the gun. i had been playing at the table for about 12-15 orbits. in that time i had noticed that 3 of my 5 opponants were super aggressive and the other 2 (the blinds in this hand) super tight. also they were all level 2 thinkers who had some idea of trying to put their opponants on hand ranges rather then just looking at their own cards. my image so far was quite a tight image as i dont like to get to involved early on in a grind i just like to sit and watch and take in as much info as i can. so with all this being said i actually limped utg as i figured one of the 3 aggressive players to my left would surely raise, which one did to $1.50 (playing 25c-50c) everyone folded apart from the big blind who like i said was quite tight. i figured that the raiser could have any 2 cards and i was plannin on 3 betting him anyway. having the big blind call did make it a bit tougher but i thought that because of my tight image and the fact that he would probably only call off the top 3 percent of hand ranges and if he did would be out of posistion to me i 3 bet to $4.75 and both players folded.

a few days later exactly the same situation utg with pocket 6's however on this table all bar one player (player to my right bb) were super loose passive level 1 thinkers who wouldnt give any thought to how i or any one else was playing so i fired out a $1.50 raise and got 2 callers both the blinds folded. flop 6,A,10 (now obviously a great flop for me) now knowing that my opponants are just looking at their cards and are loose passive players i can be pretty sure with that board that one if not both players have hit some part of it be it a draw or a pair. so i fire out a massive over bet of $8. get one caller turn is another ace. i figure now ok he could have some sort of gut shot and still call a bet or he has the ace. either way if he has the ace he will raise me if he has a draw he will still loosly call so i get $9.50 (exact same amount as he has already commited into the pot) he then went all in (obviously he has the ace) i call he shows ace-5 off suit. river is a blank woo-whooo lol.

i probably went a bit off topic playing out the entire hand with that last example but yeah i do that sometimes lol.

but as you can see with these two examples same hand same positon but before deciding how to play or bet a hand we need to know our opponants first to maximise our results there is never a correct formula or way to play a hand without knowing our opponant as best we can. now thats not to say that by doing this we are always going to win god knows i have lost a 1000 times with these sort of hands and yes they are hard to play at times. but like i said in my earlier post what our hole cards are comes second in importance to what our opponants whole cards are.

[bennymacca]

very nice post jason, you are dead right.

i think what OP was talking about originally is "standard" lines which, as you have correctly pointed out, can be modified when you get a lot more information.

what are you doing with 44-66 from EP if it is your first hand at the table?


welcome to the forum btw, we haven't talked strategy on here for a while, so i am really enjoying this.

[jasonbling36]

first hand at the table with small pockets is always tough and that was probably the point of this topic to begin with i suppose lol. if i havnt got any stats on any of the other players then im playing ABC poker 3xb/b raise and depending on the action i get pre flop eg i fold to a 3 bet as i dont want to get to heavily involved early on because as i said in an earlier post without any information im just guessing or gambling that im in front or behind id have no idea for the first few orbits. if its just smooth called id obviously fire out a standard contiunation bet and depending on the board probably give up if i get called on the flop. obviously if its a dry board like 3,3,8 rainbow id fire again on the turn but like i said you wanna get to involved to early without any knowledge of your opponant.

in summery i think when you first sit down at a table is the hardest time to play these sort of hands or any hands in fact.

[bennymacca]

in summery i think when you first sit down at a table is the hardest time to play these sort of hands or any hands in fact.

yep, agree with this, and i think this is was OP was getting at originally.

I usually open every pp from every position in a 6max game, but i like to keep my opening ranges very wide - i play a lot more laggy in 6max than i do in full ring tourneys.

[jasonbling36]

yeah im the same (going a bit off topic but) if you can balance your range throughout your session especially in 6-max you are definetly going to get paid off on those big hands. opening with 8-10 suited from utg is probably a -ev play if you get a caller but if you happen to show down with a hand like this be it win or lose with it your opponants are defintely going to want to play more hands with you and pay you off more and will keep them guessing by doing so creating a greater +ev in the long run, when you do open with or play with monster hands, which is of course our goal financially speaking