Are we having online champs anytime soon??

[BigBlkTriton]

I cant see how you can make any link between the online games hurting the venue games, if anything it seems the breakdown of what was running 12 months ago has hurt both here in SA. At Para Hills where i most often play numbers would swell from low hundreds to mid hundreds when the points chasers would target it towards the end of the seasons. Now they are only getting 70ish seems having no real leaderboards to chase no cash and no rivalry is what has hurt it. Im wondering what to do with my game, what i enjoyed is no longer there, the faces, the avatars, are not there, ME many wernt there.

I used to look foward to playing both.

[JMACK007]

I cant see how you can make any link between the online games hurting the venue games, if anything it seems the breakdown of what was running 12 months ago has hurt both here in SA. At Para Hills where i most often play numbers would swell from low hundreds to mid hundreds when the points chasers would target it towards the end of the seasons. Now they are only getting 70ish seems having no real leaderboards to chase no cash and no rivalry is what has hurt it. Im wondering what to do with my game, what i enjoyed is no longer there, the faces, the avatars, are not there, ME many wernt there.

I used to look foward to playing both.

This pretty much hits the mark. What hurt online is that there was basically no big picture to play for on-line for the past 2-3 seasons, and I also believe this has hurt in venue numbers here in SA (maybe even other States as well).
Making online scoreboards contribute to State finals will only help a little (and from what I've seen, you would need to be up with the posts on this forum to even know this is the case, please correct me if I'm wrong).

888pl had a winning formula once that drove people to play both live and on-line, and although that system probably wouldn't work in an equally fair way these days, surely we could come up with something that does work?

I honestly don't think that the on-line segment of the league has run it's course (as many seem to), particularly when, as benny the cunt said, there is a huge untapped player base within APL who would love the opportunity to play league games on-line....

The only problem then is the fact that the 2 leagues employ different points systems, so you would have to create 2 different leaderboards for the 2 different leagues, 888pl live + 888pl on-line, and APL live + 888pl on-line, and could even create a "rivalry" for on-line domination!!!

[Jav1000]

....At Para Hills where i most often play numbers would swell from low hundreds to mid hundreds when the points chasers would target it towards the end of the seasons. Now they are only getting 70ish seems having no real leaderboards to chase no cash and no rivalry is what has hurt it. Im wondering what to do with my game, what i enjoyed is no longer there, the faces, the avatars, are not there, ME many wernt there.

I used to look foward to playing both.

That is exactly what is happening in Vic (or my region at least). Many players that used to play, no longer play. Most of them say, there's no incentive and it's not the same as it used to be, same reasons you've stated above BBT.

Also, at venues, there's a lot more talk about other leagues and their games being better than 888PL on certain nights. I remember when I first started playing 18 months or so ago, people would talk anyone out of considering playing at another league, the opposite now happens.

888PL worked for me cause I have a family and playing a few hours in the evening meant I got my poker fix and was home at a reasonable hour. I still play once or maybe twice a week but I don't get the same fix as I used to.

I won the State, Regional and Home Scoreboards last season and didn't even get a trophy (even though they gave out trophies for venue winners). To be honest, I would've been happy if they just gave me a full set of all the chips (ie Final Table, jokers, etc).

The incentive last season for me was chasing a Main Event Seat which I got by finishing 2nd in the DreamTeam Scoreboard (and some cash) but that has now gone as well.

My incentive for playing online this season is to make sure I lock in an entry for the State Champs, and I'm sure very few people were aware they could qualify online.

[Hagar76]

I would ask the question has the tipping point been reached on new people coming to the games in venue? I know where i play that the occassional new face appears for a night maybe two then they are gone, which begs the questions what makes them want to stay? Coming in first time at week 8 of 12 week season gives them no chance of qualification and no incentive to stay. Add to that half the players at my venue don't even realise what it is they are qualifing for and really don't care, the standard of play drops and those wanting to give it real shot have to endure week after week of frustrating play and players (which got very tedious for me after about a year).

Which brings my next question. Would people be more inclinded to play if winning a game in venue actually got you something? Maybe each venue could run a winners freeroll at the end of each season for entry into the state finals, still gives incentive to those who just try it out one night and gives them a reason to come back. Once they are in the system i would see its a fairly easy progression to move them to the online platform, they can play the similar freerolls with similar prizes.

I could go on but i've ranted enough

One last thing would be handy if TDs actually promoted the online games in venue from time to time.

[Garth Kay]

Hi Gents,

Thanks for all of your comments and feedback.

First of all let me kick off this conversation by stating the following facts:

1.) The online market has seen a decline of 23% in the last year (before Black Friday).
2.) The Australian Poker Market has hit a plateau and positive growth has not been seen in two years.

In saying all of the above we are working on growing poker as a whole and you will see this in our next marketing and media campaign.

Yes - players don't have much to play for, competitors have grown stronger and for too long now we have rested on our laurels in several markets.

APL will be introduced to 888Poker at some stage, but we need to build a role to support this and OWN this project. At the moment Glyn is the jack of all trades and filling the holes in the organisation. He does work hard at this though, the one failing is 888Poker and their lack of support, so many times he has had to stay up till 1am so he can talk on the phone to somebody.

Over the past month I have been attending events and talking to players at length, in the Vic market, and it is abundantly clear that things need to change. (In saying that VIC is a market that is showing growth over the past two months).

I am working on several new event properties that will be introduced to SA and VIC - our focus is on in venue growth, simply because this will grow State and National prize pools. Online particpation does not grow any prize pools and revenue from this side of our program is minimal.

I would also like it noted that half of the people in this thread are lucky to play one in venue game per month; they are not members of the League but rather have developed into poker players rather than enterttainment seekers. But i do thank Andrew, Javier and Jo for their comments about in venue play as these guys are there at least once a week.

SA is in recession, the decline of in venue particpation is a result of this. Also our games have a perception of a 'forced spend' and a night out at poker can cost anywhere between $30 and $50. This needs to be changed.

It is also abundantly clear that we are not levarging our best assets effectively, that is our TD's who do such a great job at promoting events and building them. These guys need to be recognised and rewarded for their efforts and we need all of our TD's bought up to the standard set by the likes of Russ L, Steve P (SA TD's).

There is a lot to be done to turn the industry around, and our leagues. We are working on this and developing games and regions as we speak.

I have moved my attention away from our Main Event and national promotions and have turned my gaze squarely on Operations in SA and Victoria and it is a personal goal of mine to see more events, more special events and more players in our leagues.

In saying that - I still have three high level projects to develop that don't have a huge impact on this.

So to summarise the above long winded post:

1.) Attention is on in venue growth as this will grow state and national prize pools.
2.) Online particpation is not a huge focus at this time. APL will be introduced at some stage though, once the commercial agreement is finalised and the infrastructure is in place.
3.) SA and VIC operations are now a huge personal focus of mine.

Did I miss anything that needs addressing?

Please feel free to fire back with any questions you may have!

[bennymacca]

APL will be introduced to 888Poker at some stage, but we need to build a role to support this and OWN this project.

really like this, but as you say, better to wait until it can be done properly rather than introduce people to a system like it is now.

He does work hard at this though, the one failing is 888Poker and their lack of support, so many times he has had to stay up till 1am so he can talk on the phone to somebody.

well if their support to players is anything to go by i can definitely understand this.

Online particpation does not grow any prize pools and revenue from this side of our program is minimal.

you probably cant divulge this information, but i am guessing you guys are set up as an affiliate, and get rakeback from all games we play, not just the 888 poker league games? i may be way off the mark here

[wabbit999]

Looks like you know what needs to be done Garth and have some plans in place. Good work.

One thing the really bugs me in venues is the blind structure. It seems like 80-90% of the players are lost in 2-3 blind levels with the early blind levels being largely irrelevant, this I guess has come about because of increasing start stacks. Maybe looking at this might help, I know we don't want to be at venues all night but in the same token I don't want to play flips on every hand.

[Garth Kay]

Looks like you know what needs to be done Garth and have some plans in place. Good work.

One thing the really bugs me in venues is the blind structure. It seems like 80-90% of the players are lost in 2-3 blind levels with the early blind levels being largely irrelevant, this I guess has come about because of increasing start stacks. Maybe looking at this might help, I know we don't want to be at venues all night but in the same token I don't want to play flips on every hand.

I love flips! Tournament structure is an issue and always will be, you will never have an ideal deepstack strucutre when you are squeezing your tournament into a four hour window, either early or late at some stage you are going to have the tournament at a 5bb average.

What I do like about the current strucutre is that 90% of the field is still in at the first break!

[bennymacca]

agree, you could make a structure where people start with 30bb and the average stack is much higher throughout the whole tournament, but this would mean more people get knocked out early which is bad for business.

having said that, i like the idea of possibly running $20 SNGs or something like that for people that have been knocked out of the main tournament. you could even run a freeroll second tournament for a sixpack.

might mean you can have a slightly faster structure at the start, more relaxed at the end, and then the ability to keep people at the venues for longer

[666HARPS666]

having said that, i like the idea of possibly running $20 SNGs or something like that for people that have been knocked out of the main tournament. you could even run a freeroll second tournament for a sixpack.

might mean you can have a slightly faster structure at the start, more relaxed at the end, and then the ability to keep people at the venues for longer

+1

benny the cunt @ the Hoppers Club we used to have a secondary game called badbeat this was for people who got knocked out early & was for a $25 venue voucher, "no points" was just for fun & voucher.
Now days we have a secondary which 1st gets $50, 2nd $25 & is for points. Players hang around to play this game that on some nights goes longer than the 1st game, & on Tuesday night when then first game is a cashie there are @ least 6/8 people that rock up just for this 2nd game.
In saying that some venues may not want to put out a $75 2nd game, But a six pack to keep 15/30 people @ a venue for 2 more hours can't be bad for venues.

cheers [_])