give country people a chance

[madali]

Again the NPL shows there lack of support for the country members. First we have finals that are held consistantly in the same areas whcih results in long travel times for country people. Then the suggestion is made that finals be held over 2 days ensuring if country people do attend they need to pay for accomodation to attend (so much for free poker). Then we have a points system which again is geared to areas of larger population. Just a suggestion how about paying points to the top 10 %. For example if there are 30 people 3 get points if there are 200 20 get points. I suppose this suggestion will never be looked at as it just might give country people an even playing field with consistant players in with a chance. Now double points making it near on impossible for those country players who do manage to sneak into the top 10 to do so this season.
Come on NPL how about supporting country people or if not change your name to melbourne poker legue.

[Garth Kay]

Response posted on another thread:

http://nplforum.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2233&p=36964#p36964

Madali - you can post comments of these type under the "Ask the NPL" section or if you wish you can send an email to support.vic@npl.com.au

Cutting and pasting the same post in several different threads is not effective and just requires the moderators to lock and move topics.

I ask again what would you like to see offered to regional players?

[madali]

Sorry Garth I originaly posted in the wrong area.
I think I missed my point with the original post. With current points system and the december double points the gap between mid range venues and high attendance venues will be quite substansial. At a venue with 90 people attending the maximum points available would be 100 while at a venue with 70 it would be 80. By doubling this difference it now becomes 40 instead of 20. By awarding points to the top 10 % the maximum points would be the same at both venues. It would also acknowledge that there were more people at the first venue by awarding more players with points.

In regards to the finals I am not suggesting that finals be held in the country but be spread around Melbourne ie North,South,East and West so that the travel time could be reduced some of the time. I think by doing this you would find an increase in attendance of regional players to some of the finals.

Finally these suggestions are made not made to disadvantage anybody but to provide level playing field for all. I understand as an organisation you need to support the more profitable areas with more members I am just asking that we all be given a chance.

Just giving my opinion.

Mad

[Garth Kay]

Hi Mad,

I am a little confused and not too sure to what you are saying, in your example the winner of the 80 person tournament and the winner of the 100 person tournament would receive the same points?

I don't think that is too fair and a lot of people on here would agree.

In regards to venues for finals - it is extremely hard to find a venue that can sit 400+ players all at once. I receive more complaints about a finals flight system than I did about those who drove to Dingley.

I believe more players would prefer to scrap the flight systems for finals and drive an additional thirty to sixty minutes to be seated all at once and play right through and have an early night.

In my two state finals that I have managed in Vic I have managed to produce the longest State Finals as well as the shortest. Having the ability to seat all players at once makes for a faster and easier day on everybody, staff included.

[queen9]

I was led to believe that the country people and those who were a long distance from Melbourne, would be given the chance to compete in their own finals and that the $150,000 grand final would be scrapped in favour of a finals system - more favourable to our country and distanced players. But this must only have been talk as this has not happened.
Venue prizes were scrapped, regional winner prizes introduced, then scrapped, state leaderboard prizes cut and now almost abolished, a fairer points system acknowledging winning against larger fields was introduced, now that has been blown out of the water with double december. I feel for our country brothers and sisters, you are disadvantaged every way that counts. And it appears on past efforts that NPL are happy to create a system whereby South Australian players, 16 I think from memory, can march straight into the Victorian final and claim part of the $150,000 prize pool which was advertised as a Victorian only event, but leave you guys out of it. Perhaps the re-introduction of venue and regional prizes which include packages to come to Melbourne to play, would make a lot of difference to our country relatives. And if you are cutting the state leaderboard prize money, and now not having a $150,000 prize pool, surely funds can be redirected in this way. Just leave it til 2-3 weeks before you're going to do it before you tell anyone though, cos anything else would not fit current form.

[Garth Kay]

Wow Rosemary,

When you jump on a forum you really jump on it.

The $150,000 final was never apart of any marketing budget or prize pool, it was something NPL took a gamble on (and it came straight out of the bottom line). It wasn't that successful but it is something we are looking to re introduce at a later date in a different format if the right circumstances arise.

I feel for our country brothers and sisters, you are disadvantaged every way that counts. And it appears on past efforts that NPL are happy to create a system whereby South Australian players, 16 I think from memory, can march straight into the Victorian final and claim part of the $150,000 prize pool which was advertised as a Victorian only event, but leave you guys out of it.

That is your honest opinion? That's disgraceful Rosemary. 16 players from South Australia, a newly formed competition competing against a field of Victorians in excess of 200?

So much for your continued cries of: "I have the best interests of NPL at heart". NPL stands for NATIONAL Poker League. Each state has a different prize pool and structure, but we are all apart of the one playing community and we all share a passion for poker. This forum was created by a gentleman who loves playing poker and loves NPL, it is also moderated by very dedicated players.

We all share our criticisms constructively on here so I will take your comments with a grain of salt.

All of the previous information, prize pool changes, changes in competition format, etc... are a thing of the past. As repeatedly stated to you communication to players has being our biggest failing, I stand here before you now (well actually I'm sitting at a desk) to tell you that we are proactively seeking a resolution to this and I tell you that it will not happen again.

Double Points December was something that should have had a lot more lead time and should have been communicated to players much earlier. It wasn't and as a result of continued failings in this area, I now have this responsibility added to my ever growing list.

Country areas will always be disadvantaged, it is a smaller population base spread over a greater distance, were the metro areas have the densest population base. Of course the majority of prizes and large tournaments will be metrocentric.

I recently had a proposal put to me that we create two finals, one for regional and one for metro - $12,500 for metro, and the same for regional areas. regional areas host the final in different areas every season. Now could you imagine the uproar if I asked Gippsland players to travel to Mildura or if we told players they were only playing for 12,500 not 25,000.

As to prizes that include accomodation or packages to Melbourne, how many players from each region would receive this, let's go conservative and say a package costs $200, we give 5 away in each region that's $1,000 per region - $6,000 alone in packages to the finals. There is nowhere this money can come from.

We still hold at least one regional based event per season in each rural area. The prize money for this event will generally be around $1,000. Who else does this?

Thanks for your time in reading this long winded posts. I am sorry for my rant.

[queen9]

I had the best interest of NPL at heart Garth, but I do not consider they are looking after the players. The main reason I don't email you any more is for the fact that you have now made quite clear, you take my comments with a grain of salt. Thanks for that. But it does not change the facts. and it does not change the fact that I, like everyone else, am entitled to my opinion.

16 S.A. players came over to play in our tournament. Paid for from S.A. funds, flown over, outfitted, accomodated and bused to the venue, to win money from a Victorian based pool. The comments that flew that day, and since were, and still are - many, I am just the one with the guts to put it on the forum.

And as far as the reduction of state leaderboard prizemoney, the withdrawal of venue and regional prizes - on again - off again, (and apparently re-appearing in 2009,) makes us wonder from one week to the next what we are actually playing for and that is what we get disheartened about-especially without warning. Like that state final that was announced on the DAY, that first prize was only $5,000 instead of $10,000.

Carlos wrote that we are here to have fun, not find the next Joe Hachem, yet we have also been told that in order to better ourselves and end up on the big tables at the big casinos, we need to improve our game and play better poker. why are we playing at Crown? why does Dave tell us we are just wannabe poker players cos we don't win anything? why, if we are just there to have fun. we do go to have fun, but we like to play for something to - after all, it is a competition.

and as far as the state finals go, if you can't find venues to take 400 people, make it harder to qualify, or reduce the numbers in other ways - for example - top 2 from each venue and each region, top 10 from state leaderboard - it will make players more conscious of how they are playing as it will mean more. at the moment, a lot of players know that by making it to 6th or 8th, they are still a show to get to the final due to the state leaderboard top 50.

I understand that metro melbourne has a higher density of players, but Garry and Carlos spoke to me over 12 months ago about doing something for those far away players, and it appears it has still not come to fruition. and if I didn't understand the significance of a national poker league, I would not care enough to write in support of them.

Janos has also commented that some of the venues are also suffering and the venue owners don't care about state finals or ftt events, they are interested in getting the people through the door and into their clubs and pubs. a couple of venues we have played at are stopping poker as they are not getting the numbers through the door. and it all comes back to keeping the players happy, which keeps the pubs happy - and that should keep npl happy.

Now 'I' am starting to rant, but just in closing, just let me add that the lack of or poor communication is the cause of reduced numbers, not the npl format. My dad taught me if it aint broken, don't fix it - and while I accept that improvements can and should be made from time to time, continuity and consistentcy are just as important. some of my fellow players don't even know what a venue or regional leaderboard is, they don't know about state or regional finals, and if they hear about it, they come to me - some don't have internet access and never hear that they have qualified. and so I find the info for them and pass it on.

Janos and I promoted Q Magic and built it up from around 16 players to over 40 - with players coming up from geelong and craigieburn. we have players from geelong and chelsea coming to the hoppers club because we promote the venue, and we promote npl where ever we go and encourage and support new players to play more than once a week and at more then one venue, so don't ever doubt my past intentions.

after a discussion with Brayden, about what percentage of players play only one a week, we have proposed idea after idea to increase this, but it all comes back to communication. and by reading some other posts in the forum, I am not alone with these thoughts.

Good night ... rosemary

[Garth Kay]

And as far as the reduction of state leaderboard prizemoney, the withdrawal of venue and regional prizes - on again - off again, (and apparently re-appearing in 2009,) makes us wonder from one week to the next what we are actually playing for and that is what we get disheartened about-especially without warning. Like that state final that was announced on the DAY, that first prize was only $5,000 instead of $10,000.

Previous finals that I had nothing to do with I cannot comment on, but that does sound disheartening. But to say that you're wondering from week to week what you are actually playing for? As a competition and business we are entitled to change our competition structure and the prizes we offer.And I believe we are communicating these changes quite effectively and early so all players are aware. Not one person I have spoken to is disheartened by these changes, instead many are invigorated by the changes to the competition.

Granted you have played NPL for quite awhile and during those times NPL struggled (and still does at times) to get it right.

Carlos wrote that we are here to have fun, not find the next Joe Hachem, yet we have also been told that in order to better ourselves and end up on the big tables at the big casinos, we need to improve our game and play better poker. why are we playing at Crown? why does Dave tell us we are just wannabe poker players cos we don't win anything? why, if we are just there to have fun. we do go to have fun, but we like to play for something to - after all, it is a competition.

What Carlos wrote, is just that, what Carlos wrote. Within NPL we have players of varying skill levels, playing styles and ambitions. Probably one in three players will want to play at the casino once, at a minimum. I like to think we try to prepare our players for the Casino as much as we possibly can. I have no understanding of what point you are trying to make here.

If you surveyed every player that played at least once every week you would find that many of them just enjoy a social night of poker and are fully unaware of all the promotions and prizes on offer. Again this is something we wish to communicate fully to all.

and as far as the state finals go, if you can't find venues to take 400 people, make it harder to qualify, or reduce the numbers in other ways - for example - top 2 from each venue and each region, top 10 from state leaderboard - it will make players more conscious of how they are playing as it will mean more. at the moment, a lot of players know that by making it to 6th or 8th, they are still a show to get to the final due to the state leaderboard top 50.

We have had this discussion several times on this forum (huge debate) and also in head office. Currently we believe we have the balance of players right. Myself personally, I would love to have the time and venue space to have 1,000 NPL qualifiers come together every ten weeks, unfortunately this is not a possibility.

I understand that metro melbourne has a higher density of players, but Garry and Carlos spoke to me over 12 months ago about doing something for those far away players, and it appears it has still not come to fruition. and if I didn't understand the significance of a national poker league, I would not care enough to write in support of them.

Well plans are just that. Nothing of the sort will be implemented in the foreseeable future. Everything NPL (competition, prizes, tournament structure, communication, product design, etc..) now rests solely on my shoulders. I take full accountability and responsibility for everything I have promised/said and everything I will say/promise. What has said before me is redundant, I do not make promises I cannot keep and I see everything through to fruition. I do not beat around the bush, I am fairly transparent in everything NPL.

So no matter what has being promised before me and what has occurred, I do promise you that what I say will happen. Many members of this forum can attest to that.

Janos has also commented that some of the venues are also suffering and the venue owners don't care about state finals or ftt events, they are interested in getting the people through the door and into their clubs and pubs. a couple of venues we have played at are stopping poker as they are not getting the numbers through the door. and it all comes back to keeping the players happy, which keeps the pubs happy - and that should keep npl happy.

No venues have notified me of a cancellation, in fact Garry and I had a discussion on the attrition rate of venues over the last couple of years. When we first started NPL in VIC, we would lose 10% of venues at the end of each season. Over the last 6 months that number has reduced to almost 2-4%. Most venues are happy with our services right now. As to this time of year, yes venues do suffer, especially in these time of financial shakiness, but we have actually showed the same player numbers week in and week out now for the last two months, average players at events is still around 53 player per event. Good numbers as far as I am concerned, and the majority of venue managers I speak to are quite happy.

and it all comes back to keeping the players happy, which keeps the pubs happy - and that should keep npl happy.

No doubt, I like to think we are keeping the majority of players happy. The majority of responses I have received about the competition and prizes on offer is glowingly positive.

Now 'I' am starting to rant, but just in closing, just let me add that the lack of or poor communication is the cause of reduced numbers, not the npl format. My dad taught me if it aint broken, don't fix it - and while I accept that improvements can and should be made from time to time, continuity and consistentcy are just as important. some of my fellow players don't even know what a venue or regional leaderboard is, they don't know about state or regional finals, and if they hear about it, they come to me - some don't have internet access and never hear that they have qualified. and so I find the info for them and pass it on.

The competition was broke, you think a reduction of player numbers is a result of bad communication, I say that our players have not produced any positive growth because: A.) The market place has reached the point were there will be no positive growth at this time, players advance in skill and leave pub poker behind, players get bored of the nightly cards, players grow extremely bored with the competition. I have found, especially on this forum, that all of the new changes of the competition have inspired players to play again in 2009. Read the thread and this is just a small cross section of our NPL playing community.

Some players will never fully understand the competition, it is a problem we all face and most of them are not that concerned about what we offer. It is a fact we have to live with.

after a discussion with Brayden, about what percentage of players play only one a week, we have proposed idea after idea to increase this, but it all comes back to communication. and by reading some other posts in the forum, I am not alone with these thoughts.

Again, this has occurred in the past. Feel free to propose any ideas you like Rosemary, but I was not there for that discussion with Brayden.

I would also strongly recommend at having a stab at the "you're the boss competition", can one of the mods post the link please. I have to get ready as I am doing a regional run to Warrnambool and Mildura over the next two days.

I will also be in SA over the weekend.

Thanks again Rosemary, and I don't take all of your emails with a grain of salt.

I admire your passion and your intentions, but when I am working 12+ hours a day to provide a quality product and to rectify all the problems that have gone before, it is disheartening to always receive emails of a negative aspect from an NPL player. Just one positive comment about the competition structure or NPL would be fantastic.

And whilst you are entitled to your opinion, and please feel free to post it here, it may not represent the majority of players thoughts or feelings. And I will defend everything NPL and all the changes I have planned vigorously.

[queen9]

Hi again, firstly, let me say that not all my emails to you, garth, are negative, many are to let you know what players are saying around the venues and what they are saying to me. I send this info to assist you - not to fill you up with negative comments, but instead, to let you know how the players are feeling and what they are saying.

Many of them are either not computerised or are having problems getting into the forum (I did too, but eventually after a few months or trying and giving up, got in through the link on the npl website.

and on a positive side, I will be email all my poker friends to let them know how to get in as many of them are having problems too. then you can hear first hand from many of them and not just me.

Poor Peter Minca, being knocked off top spot last season simply because of one night, and now having double december topple him down again, let's just hope d.d. aids him and that the cards are kind to him.

and as for all the changes for next year, only time will tell, good luck.

the venues now not holding npl events are buckley's and the sphinx, and I am aware the the bended elbow closes it's poker at this time each year. it may come that Norlane is also on the short list due to failing numbers as the bigger venues attract players from outside their area, chasing points to make the top 50 on the state leaderboard.

If the state finals were made a little more elite, players would stay at their own venues, in their own regions and play at their local venues, therefore boosting the smaller ones as it is easier to qualify in the top 5 there rather than the larger ones. and this is not a negative comment, this is constructive.

try to get a break from 12+ hours a day, we are meant to work to live, not to live to work .... Rosemary

[Scotty]

I would also strongly recommend at having a stab at the "you're the boss competition", can one of the mods post the link please.

You're the boss competition