Leaderboards.

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Which LDB systemn do you like?

Total Points scored
5
18%
Average Points
10
36%
Total Points scored of best 20 games.
3
11%
Average points of best 20 games as rank.
6
21%
Total points scored in blocks of 10
2
7%
Average points scored in blocks of ten
2
7%
 
Total votes: 28

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bennymacca
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Re: Leaderboards.

Postby bennymacca » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:26 am

sunbury2 wrote:It is not a major overhaul as you have the region leaderboard all ready listed on the website. If you have an amended state leaderboard based on win, and placings, player in the regional areas will compete on a level playing field to those in the metro areas.



the thing you are missing, is that giving the regional players equal chance to win the state leaderboard by having fixed points DOES NOT CREATE AN EVEN COMP!!!! it creates a comp that greatly favours the regional players, so in effect, all you have done is reverse the situation to what it is now, where it is a big advantage for the city folk with regards to leaderboards


but why would you do this? you are giving the regional players "favourable" playing conditions, at the expense of 80% of your player base.

doesn't make very good business sense to me.

i play in regional area. and although it is still close to the city, and we have a few city people play, i accept that there will never be a state leader from our region playing only games from our region. its just a fact of life that the city people get more games per week, and a better selection.

i think we just have to live with it
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Re: Leaderboards.

Postby Luke05(Jamo) » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:41 am

i agree with benny the cunt on this 1
What do you mean, thats unrelated!

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Re: Leaderboards.

Postby rcon » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:46 am

Luke05(Jamo) wrote:i agree with benny the cunt on this 1
x2
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Re: Leaderboards.

Postby Garth Kay » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:56 am

sunbury2 wrote:Organising venue finals at the end of each season would quadruple my workload in that time frame

After the 9th week print off the venue leaderboard and give to the TD.
The Top 40 or 5 tables are playing in the venue finals.

Anyone else that signs up on the day play in the side event.
Winner into the Final table of the venue final.
Means someone playing in the 10th week actually has a small chance of making the state finals. All be it only by winning the venue final as probably won't have enough points as would have been in the top 40 already. Means players are also playing for points the whole season week 1-9 to try and make the top 40 of their venue.
You will be rewarding those in larger venues as they will still be fighting it out for the regional leaderboard as well as the venue. Give prizes for the top of each region.
My idea you are reducing venue qualifiers by 1, but also encouraging players in smaller regions such as ballarat, bendigo to try and compete for the regional qualification.
Maybe to sustain the larger venues have the Top 25 from that region qualify.

It is not a major overhaul as you have the region leaderboard all ready listed on the website. If you have an amended state leaderboard based on win, and placings, player in the regional areas will compete on a level playing field to those in the metro areas.

Also still roughly same number at the state finals, just a more wide spread demographical participation.



This is definitely a complete competition overhaul.

The communication, marketing and education involved in the changing of our most basic qualification methods (Top 5 from venue) would be time consuming, laborious and fraught with a major scope for dramatic failure.

And you missed my points about dedicated TD's and running venue finals in the final week.
a.) More chance of chip fraud at these events as regular NPL chips will be used.
b.) Additional staffing required at 99% of events in the final week as final events require more staffing. Especially with side tournaments to be ran.
c.) 260 venue leaderboards and qualifier lists to be generated and distributed to the correct parties - this is also a technical issue as these lists are imported into the NPL software so only qualified players can register.
d.) Logistical problems as that last week would see 65% of venue require more tables. Tables must be returned. As well as many TD's requiring additional stock to run these events.
e.) Over 10,000 players would need to be communicated to (via SMS/Email) in regards to their qualification and we only have a 12 hour time frame to do so (end of Sunday, TD's synch all results, qualifier lists generated and then SMS sent at 9am.)
f.) Communication to all venues would need to be thorough and again drawn out and laborious when we could be utilising the sales team to retain and sign new venues, sportspick also takes up a fair bit of time.

These are just some of the problems I foresee just off the top of my head.

I normally don't go this in depth but I feel I need to express why something like this is just not possible at this time.

In regards to LDB's and points dependant on placings - it is a fact of our competition that those who can play in the larger venues and more regularly will accomplish a better position (read: Metro players) but what I am trying to do is create a system that if a regional player plays exceptionally well within their region, they may not win the leaderboard but would at least have a high placing. Hence the ten game block idea.
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Re: Leaderboards.

Postby AceLosesKing » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:11 pm

bennymacca wrote:i play in regional area. and although it is still close to the city, and we have a few city people play, i accept that there will never be a state leader from our region playing only games from our region. its just a fact of life that the city people get more games per week, and a better selection.

i think we just have to live with it


Yeah, I'm with benny the cunt on this one. It's something that all regional players accept. We have had instances of making the top 50, but nothing higher than 30 I think (how far did Glenda get last season?).

It's just how the system works - and I wouldn't expect it to be changed to suit us.
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Re: Leaderboards.

Postby Des » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:18 pm

Seeing as it seems to be all about giving the regional players a shot.

How about running double points, for 1 week only in regional area's only.

Or some sort of round robin system where 1 venue has double points one week, then another venue next week, then another the week after etc...

Just an idea thrown out there seeing as mine and bacons other idea kinda got ignored LOL
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Re: Leaderboards.

Postby Garth Kay » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:24 pm

Des wrote:Seeing as it seems to be all about giving the regional players a shot.

How about running double points, for 1 week only in regional area's only.

Or some sort of round robin system where 1 venue has double points one week, then another venue next week, then another the week after etc...

Just an idea thrown out there seeing as mine and bacons other idea kinda got ignored LOL


Sorry Des, Didn't mean to ignore it, must have missed it completely. I will go back and read it.................


What a ridiculous idea!!!!!!



Just kidding. If we already have a points system based on total opponents why would we need to divide the total points scored by total opponents?

It kind of defeats the purpose all round, or did I miss something?
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Re: Leaderboards.

Postby sunbury2 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:26 pm

Garth
Quick response
a) Less chance of chip fraud at venue final. As Only 5 tables in main event. if someone wants to keep a chip for the side event then they will still have to win that side event.
b) same staff. you aren't going to get much more players. Same number of players just split on where they are seatted.
c) The players are going to come regardless of whether they are in the top 40 or not. On the night just have the list. If they top 40 the seat in tables 1-5. All other tables 6+.
d) See point b) no more tables!
e) see point c) they will come regardless.
f) Communication to venues, unsure what problem this will cause. tell them week 10 will be a venue final. By scrapping regionals NPL can even buy the venue voucher that is used as a prize. Looks like NPL giving back to the venue.

A good player in any region will feature within that regions leaderboard, though not always the state leaderboard, due to the average points system. By scrapping the state and having the top players from the region then benefits everyone. High volume metro players can still qualify through a top 3 in a venue, their regional leaderboard top 10 or 20/25 and the week 10 venue final.

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Re: Leaderboards.

Postby Garth Kay » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

sunbury2 wrote:Garth
Quick response
a) Less chance of chip fraud at venue final. As Only 5 tables in main event. if someone wants to keep a chip for the side event then they will still have to win that side event.
b) same staff. you aren't going to get much more players. Same number of players just split on where they are seatted.
c) The players are going to come regardless of whether they are in the top 40 or not. On the night just have the list. If they top 40 the seat in tables 1-5. All other tables 6+.
d) See point b) no more tables!
e) see point c) they will come regardless.
f) Communication to venues, unsure what problem this will cause. tell them week 10 will be a venue final. By scrapping regionals NPL can even buy the venue voucher that is used as a prize. Looks like NPL giving back to the venue.

A good player in any region will feature within that regions leaderboard, though not always the state leaderboard, due to the average points system. By scrapping the state and having the top players from the region then benefits everyone. High volume metro players can still qualify through a top 3 in a venue, their regional leaderboard top 10 or 20/25 and the week 10 venue final.


I think you are inferring too much and looking at this simply from your point of view rather the standard general players POV.

Communication is the issue, and perhaps you also don't understand what effort and time goes into communicating with venues on all promotions and the set up of special events. If it was that easy, I would be running special events every week on a Saturday, rotating through regions and venues.

And no you can't just have the list, all special events have software requirements and that is a fundamental aspect of all finals or one off events.

I'm not going into the finer details, but the system you propose would require significant database and software updates as well as more work for standard TD's as well as RM's.

At this time it is NOT VIABLE.
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Re: Leaderboards.

Postby sunbury2 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:56 pm

I understand there are probably more issues and problems behind the scenes, but if you are able to communicate a double points week within three weeks then why not communicate that week 10 is a venue final from next season.
The week 10 venue final can be played on exactly the same time scale and blindsas weeks 1-9.

It would mean that a player in 25th place after week 8 or 9 actually has a reason to attend week 10 venue final.
Currently what incentive would a player have that is in 25th place have of attending the final week knowing even a win won't make him the top 5.

I think if you have a venue final in week 10 then players will play the whole season. Weeks 1-9 to accumalte enough points to finish in top 40 and week 10 because they still have an outside chance of making the states.
Points awarded for week 10 will be no different than other weeks.
1-15 places. Just add this as you would normal.

Also means a player playing 7 or more venues a week has a chance to make the state finals everytime he plays in week 10. Also accumulating more points.


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