Ask Garth!

[Garth Kay]

Garth, in reference to Bennys (?) question earlier about playing enough % of hands etc, and with respect to that not really being a major stat to worry about - what sort of things would you look for to gauge your own progress at different stages of a tourney, perhaps you could use the invisible boundaries of when antes come into play and when right near the bubble as reference points.

I'm not sure exactly if you're asking one question, multiple questions, or a question within a question.

In a tournament the most important stat to judge your progress (as far as I am concerned) is average stack and your position in relation it. But not far behind that is how many BB you have in your stack and for those of you who know what I am talking about your CSI - Chip stack index - courtesy of Lee Nelson, sometimes known as M and other abbreviations..

CSI = your stack size divided by whatever an orbit of a table is going to cost you.
EG: 100/200 25 ante, 8 handed. An orbit will costs you 8x25 + 100 + 200 which equals 500. So if I had a stack of 20,000 my CSI = 40, but if my stack is 2000, my CSI is 4.

My CSI dictates what style of poker I am playing and what my targets are.

I can be half the average stack in a tournament and it won't bother me as long as I have a CSI of 20 or greater.

If my CSI drops below 7 then my only play is shove all in and my only target is a quick double up within the orbit possibly two.
CSI of 10 or greater enables me to play semi aggressive, such as opening with a raise from mid position with top 15% hand ranges and I might expand that to include suited connectors depending on my table. A CSI of 20 or greater means I can play some poker, all positions, opening hand ranges vary depending on table style and reads on opponents.

But in terms of tournament progression I like to keep an eye on the average stack and see how top heavy the top 10 are sitting on chips. Then I set my objectives of generally this many chips within the next few blind levels etc...

Hope that answers it all for you.

In terms of tournament VP$IP, PF raise or aggression factor, showdowns won, flop aggression factor etc.... they only help to dictate what style of opponent you are facing and only state what stage of the tournament I am in.

[BigPete33]

Yep, that's an answer that helps.

I was mainly asking if there were goals you'd set yourself for different stages of a tourney, keeping in mind that you know what the average stack size is at any given time when playing online and could roughly work it out when playing live.

Eg: by the time the antes come in is it a main aim to be at least a certain % of the average stack size and is it the same or does it vary when approaching the bubble.

CSI seems to mainly dictate how you might play in relation to those goals (if you have them).

[Garth Kay]

Any questions whilst I am bored and trying to procrastinate?

[Garth Kay]

I think BUMP would have been more succinct.

[David]

Garth,

Do you set goals for levels?

I was watching the WSOPE and Daniel Negreanu was being interviewed before the final table. He mentioned that the first 30 levels, almost 10 hours of play, he increased his stack after all but two.

Secondly, what is your take on controlling pot size. I have some idea, and thought on it.. but I would love to know thinking behind this. Scott said to me after the state finals where he made the final table, that he had a great day and controlled the pot size.

People are improving in the NPL, but I think this is one aspect that people don't think about enough (over all).

[bennymacca]

Garth,

Do you set goals for levels?

I was watching the WSOPE and Daniel Negreanu was being interviewed before the final table. He mentioned that the first 30 levels, almost 10 hours of play, he increased his stack after all but two.

Secondly, what is your take on controlling pot size. I have some idea, and thought on it.. but I would love to know thinking behind this. Scott said to me after the state finals where he made the final table, that he had a great day and controlled the pot size.

People are improving in the NPL, but I think this is one aspect that people don't think about enough (over all).

excellent question david

this is the biggest reason why my agressive plays dont work for me sometimes - i have lots of fold equity, but i also give my opponent a chance to win a monster pot

i also often 3bet someone light just to see whether they are serious about the hand.

typical (online) tournament scenario for me - work up a good stack early, maybe double up in the first hour or so. then i start to throw my stack around a bit, and have a brain fart and lose 3/4 of my stack so i am down to about half my original starting stack.

then i play tag poker again and build up a stack so that i am back to mid field

then i have another brain fart and i am out either early in the cash, or just before it.



in short, i think a lot of my bad play has to do with not controlling the pot size well enough. and when i try and check-call the turn and river, my opponent always seems to shove the river and i am in a tough spot

do you have any tips on this garth?

great question dave

[Garth Kay]

Garth,

Do you set goals for levels?

I was watching the WSOPE and Daniel Negreanu was being interviewed before the final table. He mentioned that the first 30 levels, almost 10 hours of play, he increased his stack after all but two.

Secondly, what is your take on controlling pot size. I have some idea, and thought on it.. but I would love to know thinking behind this. Scott said to me after the state finals where he made the final table, that he had a great day and controlled the pot size.

People are improving in the NPL, but I think this is one aspect that people don't think about enough (over all).

Hi Dave,

It depends vastly on what the tournament structure is. I guess in a deepstacked tournament I am not that concerned early on, but by the time antes are introduced my goals are to always have possibly 25- 50% more than the average at a minimum, and always looking forward to further blind increases and what sort of a chipstack I want at the level.

Now it also depends on what stage of the tournament we are at as well, on the bubble, I want twice the average so I can start pounding on the smaller stacks and picking up even more chips.

Now in a turbo tournament, such as NPL. I will play tight for the first two - three blind levels (if taking it seriously) I will then try and have four thousand (after break and passport redemption) to start playing some serious poker during the 200/400 and 300/600 blind level, at this stage you are playing short stack poker and marginal holding become more important.

Online I just want to have a CSI of ten or greater for the next blind level, as we approach the money I am looking at maintaining an edge over the average chip stack. Normally I set my goals for each hourly break.

In regards to pot control, you have to place some importance on identifying your opponents and discovering what type of player they are.

Pot control is generally in relation to marginal hands or draws. If you are holding a draw and believe your opponent is passive but is holding marginal or strong as well then there is no point in betting at this point, you do not have a made hand, and any bet you make will get called at minimum or possibly raised depending of opponents hand strength. If they are a calling station and you are marginal or drawing then it is always better to check behind until you make your hand.

Pot control is also about sizing of bets. betting the pot is not always the best option. Betting for value whether you want a call or betting for value as a c bet is generally your best option when online. Investing too much in pots too early is always problematic especially in micro or low buy in events. I like to float half pot or quarter pot bets if I am holding the nuts or c betting. I prefer to play small ball poker and not invest myself or put my tournament life on the line as often as others.

That's when i am playing seriously. I have brain fart moments when i get bored and want to start jamming and three or four betting light.

[Garth Kay]

in short, i think a lot of my bad play has to do with not controlling the pot size well enough. and when i try and check-call the turn and river, my opponent always seems to shove the river and i am in a tough spot

do you have any tips on this garth?

This isn't pot control. This is all about reading your opponents and playing your hand strength.

You try and check call the turn or river, what is the preceding action?

If you raise from middle position and I call, then you fire a bet at a flop of rags and I call, then you check the turn. I will generally fire out a bet, this play just reeks of strong A missed.
Or it's a trap, but many players at micro levels don't think of this.

It all depends on your opponents. It doesn't hurt to check the flop instead of c betting sometimes. And people generally get trapped themselves when they fall in love with marginal holdings or don't want to be outplayed.

Being outplayed is a part of poker, fearing getting bluffed is not an option, it's going to happen whether you like it or not. Swallow your pride, fold and move on.

[bennymacca]

i think what i am trying to say is, sometimes i hit top pair, or 2 pair, and i know i am good, so i bet for value on the flop and turn, but sometimes a scare card comes like a baby straight or a possible flush draw

at the micro limits i play, if i check the river after betting on all other streets, the other player instajams.

now quite often, the player is weak, and just taking the pot away from me, but other times, he has backed into a hand.

so you are right, this is about my read on an opponent. but i dont want to put myself in this position. i want him to bet half or full pot, and let me see a showdown.

a lot of the time, i will try and make a block bet - i.e bet a third of the pot, so the player will most likely call and not raise. but this obviously doesnt work that well agaisnt lags who will jam with middle pair or weak top pair.

[Garth Kay]

i think what i am trying to say is, sometimes i hit top pair, or 2 pair, and i know i am good, so i bet for value on the flop and turn, but sometimes a scare card comes like a baby straight or a possible flush draw

at the micro limits i play, if i check the river after betting on all other streets, the other player instajams.

now quite often, the player is weak, and just taking the pot away from me, but other times, he has backed into a hand.

so you are right, this is about my read on an opponent. but i dont want to put myself in this position. i want him to bet half or full pot, and let me see a showdown.

a lot of the time, i will try and make a block bet - i.e bet a third of the pot, so the player will most likely call and not raise. but this obviously doesnt work that well agaisnt lags who will jam with middle pair or weak top pair.

How often do you call down and how often would you have the best hand? How often do you fold to these shoves?

I kind of need these stats at a minimum to give any real advice.

I guess in these circumstances maybe you should not be value betting on the turn, or even the flop for that matter, make them pay to see any further community cards or check instead of value bet, let your laggy players lead the action.

Do you ever check raise when you flop strong? Do you fire c bets the majority of the time? How often do you play against these same opponents and do they have data or a read on you?

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