Player representative council

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NPL requires a player representative council?

Poll ended at Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:25 am

Hell yes! I want to be the chairman!
1
3%
Yes! The players require a voice.
9
23%
No! Too many egos floating around NPL events as is.
15
38%
No. NPL management do a good enough job and I am happy with their decisions.
4
10%
Yes
10
26%
No
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 39

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Re: Player representative council

Postby krunchie » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:16 pm

Caleb Rybalka wrote: I don't know of any other games/sports/leagues where someone can be reprimanded by a combination of the administrators and players.



sorry mate but your very very wrong on this point

have you ever bothered to be on a representative comititte of a sporting commitee, this is how most decisions regarding player conduct is made

I personally am involved in my regions Hockey and Cricket associations and i know for a fact that any tribunal type decisions are made by a group of representatives that include team reps, players and outside minds like local buisness owners and personaities

I also know that this is how our local football tribunal works
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Re: Player representative council

Postby Caleb » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:32 pm

Garth Kay wrote:
I don't know of any other games/sports/leagues where someone can be reprimanded by a combination of the administrators and players.


You have to be kidding? What sports do you play? Baseball, gridiron, Football, all sports I have played, and all have a tribunal formed by senior players and administration and when a player is reported by a referee or umpire they face the tribunal.


Sorry Garth, I wasn't clear enough in my original post. I play sport socially, Cricket mainly, and a tribunal is indeed made up of administrators and players alike. That's not what I meant.

In the case of my cricket league, the administators are simply players or other parties who offer their time to help "govern" the league. They are not paid and are able to play in the league with the other players with the same benefits as everyone else.

As contractors, we are in charge, for lack of a better word. We are employed to run tournaments under the guidelines set forward by NPL and are paid for the job we do.

I am of the opinion that a joint tribunal would not be the way to go in this case. When I say that..
I don't know of any other games/sports/leagues where someone can be reprimanded by a combination of the administrators and players.


I mean in the context the the league is not run by the players themselves. I hope that makes sense.
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Re: Player representative council

Postby Scotty » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:51 pm

maccatak11 wrote:I was originally in favour of this, but after reading all of the points, i might change my vote to no.

I personally like the idea (paul's i think) of simply marketing this forum to a wider audience and trying to get a wider variety of people to contribute here (where the hell is the link to the forum from the main NPL site???)

In that way, we will not just hear the voices of a select few that are elected(?) to the representative council, but a wider view of many players opinions.

You mentioned that the representative council would act as another port of call for players with issues/complaints about other players or TD's. I think the system in this regard is fine already.

If i have a problem, i chat to my TD, if im not satisfied i chat to my regional director and if im not satisfied ill email garth. This system aint broke, so why fix it?

Whilst senior players could be consulted regrading the formation of an NPL code of conduct, i think it should be TD's and management who should enact this code. It would be good for players to have a voice, but i believe we already have a voice via this forum.

And it has been proven already that ideas/issues/problems raised on this forum are listened to and have been dealt with.

Its a good idea in theory, but im not convinced we actually need a players council. It what way's would it significantly improve on the systems already in place now, without making it extra complicated??


I'm quoting the entire post, as I'm too sore from cricket and my finger is black and blue.

Yes, this forum is an excellent tool for NPL players to raise any subject they wish. Many ideas and initiatives have been borne from a topic or poll started here (Berri Deepstack, anyone?). But the percentage of regular contributors here vs the total NPL database is minuscule.

This in part leads to my first point; we're not just talking 'problems' being raised to TDs, but the gathering of said ideas and initiatives. I obviously have no figures to back me up, but I'd be inclined to think that almost any time a player is approaching a TD, it is with a problem or issue directly related to the game. How many times do you think the majority of players will approach a TD with an idea they've had for a special event, or major change to the structure? If they're not a forum member, I'd be guessing most player's suggestions are simply lost in the shuffle.

The reason I voted yes, has a lot to do with this. Easily approachable, respected and subjective-minded NPL players, who have the ear of the NPL management, should see many more suggestions and opinions on how the NPL can improve and diversify be heard and discussed.

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Re: Player representative council

Postby Garth Kay » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:38 am

In the case of my cricket league, the administators are simply players or other parties who offer their time to help "govern" the league. They are not paid and are able to play in the league with the other players with the same benefits as everyone else.

As contractors, we are in charge, for lack of a better word. We are employed to run tournaments under the guidelines set forward by NPL and are paid for the job we do.

I am of the opinion that a joint tribunal would not be the way to go in this case. When I say that..


If we are using this analogy: Are umpires paid for umpiring in your league? All sports I have played they have been, they are paid to be an independent observer who makes impartial rulings. Very similar to a TD wouldn't you say?

When a player, playing any sport, acts in an unethical or dangerous or disrespectful manner, do not the umpires "report" these players and then they are charged to face a "tribunal" of their peers and management of the league?

TD's are always in charge of running tournaments in a friendly yet professional manner, but the net end result is that there is always something going on in a tournament that TD's cannot be fully aware of or a player does not wish to discuss with TD's but would prefer to speak of it with a fellow player. Even if they do not wish to discuss it with a player rep then there is definitely more chance of a player rep hearing of unethical behaviour, new ideas, player dislike or likes than the majority of TD's. Especially in the case of well respected and liked player reps.

And in the end, not all TD's are of the customer service calibre as you are Caleb. Nor are majority/minority as passionate to discuss poker/NPL related aspects with you as with others.

Feel free to spend a week with me and see what reports/rumors I get per week from second hand sources, but TD's were aware of x,y and z but didn't feel the need to pass it on to management.

In just this one aspect a player rep council has so much potential and alleviates some of the customer service stresses placed upon non profecient TD's in this arena.




On another point, the whole fact this forum exists is a wonderful thing and yes it is an awesome tool for voicing your opinions and debating numerous related NPL topics, but players are turned off by the use of technology and no matter how hard we try there will always be players with problems or great ideas/arguments who will not contribute. This is just opening another avenue of communication between players and NPL management.

As to the voice of the NPL players reduced to one voice? It would be 26 voices at a minimum, at least 2 reps from every region, some may even require three or four. And if you look at the majority of the major posters on this forum, couldn't the same apply here? The voices.sounding board of NPL is currently reduced to the consistent posters on this forum, who I could count on one hand.
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Re: Player representative council

Postby Scotty » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:54 am

Don't forget; this forum is still an informal means of voicing your thoughts, be it a complaint, issue or new idea.

The proposal in front of you is based on a similar collection of intelligence, but much more formal.

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Re: Player representative council

Postby Scotty » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:59 am

This can also work the other way - players on this board could float ideas in a casual and comfortable environment to a wide player base.

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Re: Player representative council

Postby AceLosesKing » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:15 am

Ok, here goes.

I like the idea. I remember reading a while ago that Vic players had trouble getting on the forum and would often head to a certain player (I forget who) to voice their concerns. Said Vic player would then bring all the troubles she had heard over the past weeks to the forum, for the TD's to sort out. So I can definitely see players approacing the NPL council to voice their concerns - wouldn't you rather go speak to someone you know then a TD? (who can be very busy and look like they don't want to be bothered sometimes).

Scott wrote:This can also work the other way - players on this board could float ideas in a casual and comfortable environment to a wide player base.


This sums up what I'm trying to say perfectly.

Regarding the forums being the players voice - it already is (teams event, Berri ftw). Why not have the forums, and the council running at the same time? The council could easily direct players to the forum (while still hearing their ideas). I like the idea of NPL players having a say about all NPL matters (venues, prizes, punishments, etc). Gives a view from the player perspective.

Scott wrote:I obviously have no figures to back me up, but I'd be inclined to think that almost any time a player is approaching a TD, it is with a problem or issue directly related to the game. How many times do you think the majority of players will approach a TD with an idea they've had for a special event, or major change to the structure? If they're not a forum member, I'd be guessing most player's suggestions are simply lost in the shuffle.


This is an excellent point, and I wholeheartedly agree.

There are a few problems I see with this, though. While it all sounds well and good in text, how are you going to convey this to the average NPLer at a tourny? I can just imagine more than half the crowd taking a step back and going, "what? We're going to be monitored by fellow players now?" Furthermore, how are we going to vote region rep's? On the forum? You do realise little more than 20 regulars frequent this forum, and that's all. We would be the majority of players voting.

And you CAN'T take such an important decision to the players without the majority of them knowing about it. "Ta-da, here's your new region representatives guys." Won't fly.

So yeah, that's my thoughts for now. Might come back and add some more later.
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Re: Player representative council

Postby Caleb » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:41 am

If we are using this analogy: Are umpires paid for umpiring in your league? All sports I have played they have been, they are paid to be an independent observer who makes impartial rulings. Very similar to a TD wouldn't you say?

When a player, playing any sport, acts in an unethical or dangerous or disrespectful manner, do not the umpires "report" these players and then they are charged to face a "tribunal" of their peers and management of the league?


I'm not disagreeing with this at all. I thought I made that clear. But even though NPL is a social league in the same vein as any sport, I do view it as a business moreso. NPL is a company that provides a service. That is why I have misgivings about a tribunal of peers making decisions that COULD affect the business. That's the only point I'm trying to put across.

TD's are always in charge of running tournaments in a friendly yet professional manner, but the net end result is that there is always something going on in a tournament that TD's cannot be fully aware of or a player does not wish to discuss with TD's but would prefer to speak of it with a fellow player. Even if they do not wish to discuss it with a player rep then there is definitely more chance of a player rep hearing of unethical behaviour, new ideas, player dislike or likes than the majority of TD's. Especially in the case of well respected and liked player reps.


This is an extremely valid point. I agree completely with it as I have seen it myself many times. I would just like to make sure that TD's are not disregarded in favour of simply going to a player representative regarding certain matters. As I said before, I would prefer for a TD to be first port of call in most situations.

And in the end, not all TD's are of the customer service calibre as you are Caleb. Nor are majority/minority as passionate to discuss poker/NPL related aspects with you as with others.


?? I don't understand this comment Garth. I get that some are just after a casual game and aren't as passionate as others, but if a player at my game is unhappy with any situation to could be changed/discussed but do not come to me, it's not a situation I'm completely happy with. I would seek to rectify it. I don't see the problem with that?


In just this one aspect a player rep council has so much potential and alleviates some of the customer service stresses placed upon non profecient TD's in this arena.

On another point, the whole fact this forum exists is a wonderful thing and yes it is an awesome tool for voicing your opinions and debating numerous related NPL topics, but players are turned off by the use of technology and no matter how hard we try there will always be players with problems or great ideas/arguments who will not contribute. This is just opening another avenue of communication between players and NPL management.

As to the voice of the NPL players reduced to one voice? It would be 26 voices at a minimum, at least 2 reps from every region, some may even require three or four. And if you look at the majority of the major posters on this forum, couldn't the same apply here? The voices.sounding board of NPL is currently reduced to the consistent posters on this forum, who I could count on one hand.


26 seperate voices from all walks of NPL life contributing would be absolutely brilliant if it works the way we would all hope. I'm just iffy, that's all.

All I can do is re-iterate what I said in my first post:
I voted No, but the only concerns I have are the ones outlined above. Apart from that, I think it's a very good idea.
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Re: Player representative council

Postby Garth Kay » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:51 am

Quote:
And in the end, not all TD's are of the customer service calibre as you are Caleb. Nor are majority/minority as passionate to discuss poker/NPL related aspects with you as with others.


?? I don't understand this comment Garth. I get that some are just after a casual game and aren't as passionate as others, but if a player at my game is unhappy with any situation to could be changed/discussed but do not come to me, it's not a situation I'm completely happy with. I would seek to rectify it. I don't see the problem with that?


Not all TD's are willing to listen to player's on a whole range of discussion points. I think you have read sarcasm into my comment when I was being sincere. At this stage not all TD's are prepared to listen to player complaints/issues nor are they equipped well enough to handle them. Whilst you personally may seek to rectify anything that is bothering players, there are others who won't or are just not skilled enough in customer service.

In the end this has gone off on a tangent away from the ventral point of conversation.
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Re: Player representative council

Postby Garth Kay » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:56 am

bennymacca wrote:thats pretty true paul

in addition to all of the crap that we usually talk on here, the forum has been used to get the NPL player base's ideas for a while now - isn't this what the council would be set up to do?


Not entirely, they would have other functions and would also be taking messages or thoughts or ideas from NPL management back to the players.
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