Is this a bad beat?

[maccatak11]

Ok say you said you would put a small bet out (<1/2 pot) on the flop and then check the turn to the late position player??

What now?? what do you do if he bets?? If you fold then you have wasted a bet if you were going to check/fold the turn anyway?

What if he checks? Are you going to bet the river?? Again you are only getting called by better hands, and the way this hand played out, if the turn and river did not complete any/many draws then i would be calling down with middle pair.

You are yet to convince me sir.

[bennymacca]

with something like A2, i like to check and try to get to showdown. a lot of the time other players will bet river as a bluff is flop and turn are checked through, and this is where u can get value with a hand like A2.

other than that, its pretty much useless - you are betting as a bluff here because u are rarely getting called by worse

[AJG]

You are yet to convince me sir.

I am not trying to convince you of anything.

Perhaps the hand I described was not the best for using a feeler bet, but there was (always is) more to it than purely looking at the cards, and betting.
I was in the BB in a limped pot with a low flop. These are flops I don't like to see if I happen to have limped preflop (not often), as there is no way to even put the BB on a range, and sometimes they connect heavily with such flops. As I also said in the OP, I was starting to rebuild an aggressive (and somewhat loose) image as I had just moved tables: I was basically running over everyone at my previous table, wasn't happy at being moved . I will wait to see a few hands to guage how well this is likely to work on any given table, and I decided this was a table it would work reasonably well on (lots of limped pots and passive postflop play)
That together with the fact that I was quite familiar with the play of the one person who called my flop bet, I can't of course say exactly what I'd have done in response to various plays that might have been made, but calls didnt concern me so much, but had he (not neccessarily any other players) decided to raise on that flop I probably would've reraised him as I am pretty sure he'd have been done with the hand if I did. As he flat called, I decided to check the turn to see what he would do in that case, and for pot control (I did only have bottom pair, so didnt want to play a big pot)... His check behind left me in no doubt that he hadn't connected with anything, so I decided I would bet the river pretty much regardless of what came out. Had he not checked behind me, my action would be dependant on the size of his bet, but more than likely a fold. And of course, leading out on that flop in a limped pot, there was a decent chance I could pick up the pot then and there...

Also, being a universal problems with forums, or any text only communications, sometimes the main point being made is not realized by readers. The main point I was making describing that hand was regarding the woman who commented on my play (as well as something about my heritage ), who then busted the very next hand (which I was not involved in), mucking to middle pair on the flop - top kicker (most of that paragraph was talking about this). ie the disparity between what people sometimes say and what they do. I would imagine from her comments and demenour that she probably had my 2s beat when she folded on the flop. Had I not described my bet on the flop as a 'feeler bet', the last 3 pages of posts wouldnt have occured! But the intention behind the bet was a) to see if anyone else had connected with the flop (and possibly how well, hence calling it a feeler bet), b) to not give free cards to people with backdoor draws, or over cards, and c) to start building a somewhat LAG table image (1st pot I saw a flop @the new table). It was probably misleading of me to describe it purely as a feeler bet, and an oversimplification of my thinking at the time.
So maybe that particular hand was not the best to describe a flop bet as a feeler, but that doesnt mean they they don't have their place in flop games.

You personally may not think feeler bets are a good idea, but there are plenty of players (myself included, obviously) who do think they can be useful in certain situations. If you choose not to utilize such bets, that is of course your choice.

[bennymacca]

read this article aaron - i think it pretty much describes hands like bottom pair

http://www.pokerlistings.com/strategy/the-bluff-catcher

[AJG]

Read it along time ago thanks

[AJG]

I will, from now on, only post hands that seem to fit into the 'macca' style of play, as that of others only seems to be argued against, regardless of success or any other factors....

Did u actually read my last post?
Again it sems you have missed the point of what I was saying, and latched onto something you could pick, so I will repeat relevant portion for your convenience...

Also, being a universal problems with forums, or any text only communications, sometimes the main point being made is not realized by readers. The main point I was making describing that hand was regarding the woman who commented on my play (as well as something about my heritage ), who then busted the very next hand (which I was not involved in), mucking to middle pair on the flop - top kicker (most of that paragraph was talking about this). ie the disparity between what people sometimes say and what they do. I would imagine from her comments and demenour that she probably had my 2s beat when she folded on the flop.

NOT to describe a play I made as being either good or bad...

Try posting something constructive rather than links to 2nd rate strategy sites...
You might also consider being less condescending....

Maybe had I said: I was semibluffing with bottom pair, and had a good read on my opponent, the tune of this thread would be very different.

[bennymacca]

dude, i am sorry if you thought i was being condescending. it was not my intention at all.

regardless of what your main point was, we have been discussing "feeler bet" for the last 5 pages or so. i found this article today, and thought it was relevant, so i posted it. (whether you think it is a second rate site is irrelevant)

i have never said you have to play my way, but we have given our opinions on how you played the hand, since this is a hand discusson thread after all.

[bennymacca]

And during this same tourney (which I finished 5th/145 AND took out a bounty ), about 5 hands after being moved to a new table (and was the table big stack), I was in the BB and saw a free flop with A2o, and hit my 2 on a 9 high board, I made a feeler bet and only got 1 caller (of about 4 limpers preflop) so I checked the turn (another low card that put out a funky straight draw) and caller checked behind me. River bought a blank (to the draw) so I bet half the pot, got called but won the hand with my 2s (caller showed Big Slick). One of the limpers who folded to my flop bet (about 1K, blinds were 200/400 I think), got really upset and angry at me, and said (after calling me a d.onk amongst other unpleasant things) "How do you bet so hard with bottom pair?!", I replied it was a feeler bet (again blank looks), on a difficult flop to connect with, and I figured my 2s were good after the checked turn. I also politely reminded her that my read was right. She didnt take my response too well either! The very next hand she ended up allin on the turn, lost and didnt even show her cards! She lost to middle pair Ace kicker, so what the devil was SHE betting her whole stack on after getting so upset with my play???

in this part here, you are implying that betting bottom pair on the flop and again on the river for value is super standard. we have been trying to tell you that its not, but really you haven't listened at all.

[Bacon]

Boys, can I tell you know I see this thread?

AJG - Here's a hand that I played, what do you think?
Ben/Matt - Don't like it, this is why
AJG - Yeah, but this is why I did it
Ben/Matt - And this is why I wouldn't play like that
AJG - But I'm right
B/M - But I'm right
repeat ad naseum.

I don't have a problem with a 'feeler' bet. See where you are, someone calls, you figure you are behind, and can fold... better than someone setting a trap on you. I wouldn't use it every time, but it can be used.

[bennymacca]

you are right bacon - but aaron seems to be coming up with a scenario - and then when we say how, in our opinion, that play would be wrong and why, aaron says ok thats a bad example, i am right.

to me seems like you dont want to discuss it unless we agree with you