Is this a bad beat?

[BigPete33]

AJG:

I'll give you an example of a clearly wrong way to play a hand, and therefore why the statement is ridiculous.


"I always play 8 3 off suit because Dakota said I should".



By the way, I'll be punching the next person who actually does that and bases it on that very reason.

[Garth Kay]

I think there has been three of four different conversations going on in this thread at the one time. And a lot of miscommunication or perhaps some points that were overlooked or misinterpreted.

When someone makes that comment "there is no right or wrong way to play a hand" it is generally a spin on the comment "there are many ways to correctly play a hand".

I think we all agree that some hand can be played terribly and are definitely the wrong way to play them, and individuals can quite often disagree on these facts as well.

But the ultimate goal in any hand is to make the correct decision that net's you the most profitable amount of chips you can, there are other external factors when you look at the bigger picture of the tournament and establishing table image, but the ultimate goal is to make the most profitable and +EV plays.

So in saying the above there may be several different ways to play a hand against the same opponent/s that nets you the same result: by showdown you have all of their chips and you have accumulated the most amount of chips you possibly could in that hand.

Now after saying all of that:

People have different playing styles and different perceptions of the game, when discussing a hand, something to consider is the way the hand played which scenario accumulated the most amount of chips with minimal risk. But some players are aggressive and the "minimal risk" part of the quote there is not considered by these individuals (which is completely fine).

So even thought there may be a scenario of playing the hand which is the "ultimate" way of playing it = minimal risk and smaller win, there can be occasions where the most amount of chips accumulated for that hand is by taking a risk and making moves or plays that may be slightly - to neutral ev (depending on your opponents playing styles and reads) that will see more chip accumulated than played as "normal".

These types of plays are quite often when you float a flop looking to bluff on further streets or a semi bluff on the come. These plays can definitely be -EV at the time made but the implied odds or the situational read means that this play is +EV on further streets. I do not want to get into the maths of it and one or two examples; but needless to say if you read a LAG player as holding a big Ace and the flop falls rags, you float the flop (which isn't +EV if you are behind and haven't hit the flop), to make an aggressive play on the turn when a paint card doesn't fall, can be a +EV play over the long period of time. Or a player that regularly bluffs the river say 80% of the time he gets there in a heads up situation, you know you have to make this call as 80% of the time you will quite possibly be beating his range with K high at minimum or bottom pair (very generic but I don't want to get into specific examples).

And there are times when a bet can be made simply not for extracting maximum value or forcing weaker hands to fold, I personally use a blocker bet quite often. I hit a river after passively playing post flop or allowing my opponent to take the lead on flop or turn, I know I want to go to showdown but am concerned about the strength of my hand. So if I am first to act I will generally slide a small value bet out (situation and opponent read dependant). If I beleive my opponent isn't super strong and only willing to call or min raise the river (as past history may dictate) I will control the pot on the river to dictate what I am willing to call or to confuse my opponent so he second guesses himself and just calls the river. Hence I am costing myself less chips to go to showdown than I would if I let my opponent control the action on the river. I must stress that this does not occur all the time and is a staple of my betting strategies, but it does work against the right opponents in the right circumstances, and sometimes it even develops into the river value bet bluff.

[AJG]

Did you actually read what I typed?

Yes, I always read posts in their entirety... even reread the ones that I respond to... What did I miss or misinterpret Pete?

[BigPete33]

Nice post Garth.

Or should I say "np" and you may respond with "ty ty".

[bennymacca]

talking about the merits of a feeler bet is much more interesting than your original post!

lol

please dont be offended AJG, we are just poker nerds at heart that like to discuss every single little situation to the death.

[Garth Kay]

I really wish that one word 'feeler' had not been included in that original post...

I have no problem with this term.

Sometimes I like to check raise or make an aggressive move simply because I want to have an idea on where I am in the hand against certain opponents, sometimes I just do it on gut instinct and have no idea if I am making a +EV play or not.

Even though this is hypocritical to what I said above, sometimes there are times (especially after 12 - 16 hours of play) that you get lost in a hand, and the simple thing to do when you are unsure is bet. Simple but true.

[AJG]

AJG:

I'll give you an example of a clearly wrong way to play a hand, and therefore why the statement is ridiculous.


"I always play 8 3 off suit because Dakota said I should".



By the way, I'll be punching the next person who actually does that and bases it on that very reason.

LOL at that last sentence...
Yes, but in that case Pete, its the reasoning thats wrong, not the play neccesarily, (if its 1% of my stack to call from the BB, I will, as would most )
Don't scream too loud Pete

I really wish that one word 'feeler' had not been included in that original post...

I have no problem with this term.

It was just that it caused so much repsponse, and basically caused the misunderstanding of my main point (I think)

[Garth Kay]

Nice post Garth.

Or should I say "np" and you may respond with "ty ty".

Tap Tap.

TY

will suffice.

[AJG]

I personally use a blocker bet quite often.

Thank god I didnt originally describe my river bet as such, which, dare i say it, WAS to stop him bluffing more on the river, which i knew himto be more than capable of on Ace high....

[maccatak11]

hahahaha hippocritical.