The Poker Star with Joe Hachem

[Swanky]

How did you not get on that show with that hair???
Oh man, I woulda watched that!

[bennymacca]

This troubles me lol Say we didn't know what cards he has with a pot of 16K and OESD, two spades on the board, let's say for argument sake we are deep stacked and we checked, he fires 10K.

it says in the show that they are pretty short stacked by this stage fo the tournament.

Remember the old bloke was playing pretty tight as well but even if he was playing somewhere in between super tight and super loose - Why is check-raising better than flatting or folding???

Also if we check-raise what's our plan for:
a.) A spade turn including 9s and As
b.) The board pairs
c.) An ace or 9 (not of spades)
d.) A non-dangerous brick

check raising is good because:

1. it allows your opponent to cbet his whole range
2. it allows your opponent to fold a good portion of the time
3. if they do shove, we have at worst 6 outs, at best 14
4. it usually causes them to slow down on the turn, so most of the time we will see the river anyway.

with your plans there trishan, i think you are assuming that someone smooth calls our check raise. to be honest, i doubt this would happen very often unless we are super deep. but lets assume we are.

if our opponent calls, then we can reevaluate. if we check again, quite often we will get a free card, because if our opponent is holding something like top pair, he won't like getting check raised again, and so he will check through.

unless someone has a premium hand, i doubt they would bet again on the turn. if they do, we can check raise again as a semibluff (rarely), or we can let it go, depending on reads.


check calling allows our opponent to double barrel basically any turn card, especially the scare cards, and we have to lay it down a lot of the time.


what do other people think?

[trishan]

Fair points benny the cunt. Did a little reading on the topic and seems a few people mirror your opinion.

Betting out is a good option. At least, it's better that check-calling. But if you bet, you run the risk that someone will raise you enough to kill your odds. This is especially true if you bet into the original pre-flop raiser. If that happens, you'll have to tuck your tail between your legs and fold. Betting out is good, but there is a better move.

When you catch a flush draw or an open-ended straight draw; check and let the people behind you act. This strategy is especially effective if you're checking into the pre-flop raiser. Let them bet for you then re-raise heavy. This move accomplishes two things:

First, it tells you're opponents to watch out because you're playing a monster. Your hand may be a drawing hand, but the check-raise makes your opponents wonder if you flopped two pair or trips. Even if they call your raise, they'll be weary.

If the turn is a blank card, you can check again. Your opponent will remember your check-raise and is likely to check behind you. So your check-raise gave you a free look at two cards and it also gives you a chance to take the pot away on the river.

If you're opponent checks behind you on the turn, you can bet the river even if your card doesn't hit. When your opponent checked the turn, they let you know they aren't confident in their hand. A well placed bet may win you the pot.

This advice is aggressive poker, to be sure. But aggressive poker is winning poker. Play your draws more aggressively and watch the cash come rolling in.

The thing that is killing me is the thought of check raising heavy when you are up against a monster. On a board of Js 10s 2h with two players what gets folded to a c/r?
AA/KK/QQ - probably not
AK/AQ - probably
AJ/JJ/1010 - probably never
33-99 - folding the majority of the time

Would be interested to hear Garth's opinion.

[bennymacca]

AA/KK/QQ - probably not no but we have 6-8 outs
AK/AQ - probably should be folding to a check-raise
AJ/JJ/1010 - probably never we have 14 outs aginst AJ and 8 against the others
33-99 - folding the majority of the time yep

the only worry here is big flush draws calling us as well, because they we only have 6 outs

[muzzington]

I tihnk they were a little unfair on her with that hand. Check-raise would have put her all in and she didn't want to get it wrong. Probably didn't help her that she was up against the old guy who everyone thought was weak and figured he'd show up with a real hand.

[bennymacca]

maybe i am a lagtard, but i would snap shove there every time, even against a nit

thats assuming we are short stacked enough to make an all-in a reasonable raise.

if we were deeper, it would depend on how deep we were as to what move i made.

[muzzington]

I'd be tempted to do it as well, but I don't think it's *the* thing to do in that situation. I think the series is going to have a lot of Joe going "Hey, I saw the other persons cards, you should have done THIS!"

[Brett Kay]

It is a winner take all sit n go.

Obviously trying to define a hand range with bugger all info means sometimes go for it.

Obviously Card Dead guy who got eliminated, was an idiot, i was card dead but didn't try and make anything happen.
at 500/1000 with 50k start, means you will get chipped at pretty quickly.

[bennymacca]

had a few mates over watching the gf, and we turned the pokerstar on.

turns out that everyone thought that tom dude looked like me, which is pretty funny, and prolly accurate when i haven't had a shave or a haircut in a while.

and then he started folding everything, and the similarities disappeared.

[trishan]

Reminded me more of Rooke from Geelong lol