Rule No. 10

[Lizard]

This is rule 10 on the npl rule site ,take note to the underlined part.

Rule No. 10 -Raise Requirements :If a player puts in a raise of 50% or more of the previous bet but less than the minimum raise, he or she will be required to make a full raise. The raise will be exactly the minimum raise allowed. If an all-in bet of less than a full raise does not reopen the betting to a player who has already acted.

So the way I read that is, if the BB is say $6000 there are 4 players in the pot the flop is dealt player 1 checks, player 2 bets $6000, player 3 calls $6000, player 4 calls $6000, player 1 goes all in for 7000 making a 1000 raise .(not a full raise)
So player's 2,3 and 4 have to put in a $1000 to stay in the pot.Correct?

But at actual npl venues they make each player put another $6000 each if they want to stay in the pot (this then reopens the betting )which I believe is incorrect. (but then again house rules is house rules)
What are your opinions?

[BigPete33]

I'm not the authority on the matter, but I'm led to believe those rules are really NSW cash game rules, and therefore not as applicable as perhaps they could be.

I'm sure Garth can clarify further.

**edit** I'm guessing a wee bit but I think because the allin has actually raised (even tho it's only another $1k - if they had the chips it would have to have been another $6k) the other players are obligated to meet the minimum to continue, which in this case is $6k more.

If it was all-in for $1k extra and only one other player still in the hand, then yep just chuck in the extra $1k.



I'm glad you brought this up actually, if the rules on the website are in fact not really what we're competing with PLEASE fix it (pretty please!). At the moment there's a touch of pub 8-ball about it with there being a few 'discussions' as to what is the correct rule.

Some classic ones are:

Players showing their hand before betting has completed (that's a muck for me)

Folding but then bringing their cards back because they changed their mind and claiming they didn't touch the muck pile so it's fine (don't really know that one).

Players being held to what they say (ie raise) or 'talking trash' and announcing their hand (regardless if it's factual).

One I was curious about the other night was a player announcing quite clearly 'RAISE' and then being pulled up (surprisingly not by me!) for stringing the raise. I'd have been fine with that because intentions were clear - and it's on tv all the time lol

And various other niggly ones that unless it's spelled out somewhere for us we're only guided by what the TD says (which is sometimes different!)


Great question!

[Garth Kay]

Good points all I have being asked several times in the last week for clarification on some rulings.
I have also had arguments with TD's about what is the correct ruling.
I'm from the old school and follow Robert's rules quite closely.
To the above mentioned scenarios:
If a player is all in for less than the minimum bet and is the first to BET POST FLOP, then all players only have to call the all in bet, not complete the bet to the minimum bet. If it is preflop then the minimum bet is the big blind, if for instance: BLINDS 3000/6000 Player A is UTG and moves all in for 9000, all players fold to the dealer button. Button and SB call but BB decides he wants to isolate with a minimum raise: BB must then complete the bet to 12,000 and then raise a further 6000 for the minimum.

Any player exposing their hand before the round of betting has completed has mucked/folded their hand, although their are some extenuating circumsatnces, especially with newer players, where we will lock the pot and allow the hand to be played out.

Any motion of pushing cards towards the middle and then removing your hands from them constitutes a muck. At no time should any player, apart from the dealer, touch the muck hand. This is one of my pet hates in poker.

Verbal is always binding. If a player wishes to intimidate someone by saying I am going to raise then he is bound to raise. The same can be said for verbally declaring any poker action.

A player declared then was pulled up for stringing? Not right. If I verbally declare my action to raise then there are several things to be careful off, chips still need to go into the pot in one smooth motion UNLESS you have declared the value of the raise. The correct way of moving chips is to always move chips in one motion but if you have just declared raise then you may move the CALL into the pot then place your raise (in one motion) into the pot afterwards.

At the moment the rules on the NPL website are based on NSW play, which is primarily cash tournaments. I must say I don't agree on all of their rules. We hope to get together a rule book for SA and post it somewhere so it is easily available for SA players.

Hope that has answered a few questions for you, now all we need to do is get our Tournament staff on the same page.

[Des]

Garth,

If you want to make a rule book, I can get it converted to a PDF and put on this site if you like.

As for your above post, I agree with them all.

I do notice a few of the TD's still enforce a full raise though.

ie Blinds 500/1000
SB 500
BB 1000
UTG Folds
EP All in for 1200
MP Wants to call the 1200, but is forced by the TD to put in 2000.

I can't remember which TD it was though.

[Darren B]

Des

In your situation MP was not first to act so I belive the TD was correct.
Nor was it post flop.
Or am I missing something?

[Des]

But the raise was not a full raise, nor 50% of the BB... thus it should be allowed to just be called? I might be wrong though.

Thats kind of the problem, some TD's see it the way I do, some don't.

Hence a uniform set of rules would be great. I'd be willing to help write them with Garth.

[Garth Kay]

Well seeing none of our staff want to help me, you've got a job Des. I wouldn't mind putting together some players and staff to put together this rule book.
Maybe just four players and four staff. We have to do a thorough one though and it will be several hours work.

[Des]

Alright... I'll do some ground work... after i win the palais tonight!

[BigPete33]

Can I please have included a rule about calling an allin with ace rag (off suit), and hitting a flush on the river with the rag?

It's the height of rudeness lol

[Lizard]

Thanks for the feed back.

Rule No. 30 -Verbal Declarations - Verbal declarations in turn are binding. Action out of turn may be binding and will be binding if the action to that player has not changed. A check, call, or fold is not considered action changing.

This is another rule which I agree with but is played differently at venues.
When someone raises out of turn but then the person who's turn it was checks,the TD says the raiser must now check.
To me thats not a good way to play. It means some may say a big raise to scare the person into checking so they have to check as well which might be exactly what they want.
It should be if you raise out of turn you play the raise unless the player whos turn it is raises it higher then like the rule says you may re-raise fold or call.

Another pet hate of mine is how they determine the dealer ie 1st ace !
Why not like I have seen on most poker sites? 1 card each, highest card deals, if 2 or 3 same high cards its decided by suits S H D C this is how its done on pacific poker online + many others and is a much fairer idea.
Suits can be whatever npl decides.