Crazy Monday Poll - A serious one

[Adrian]

Damn Adrian, you really are towing the company line mate!
Nice work.

LOL. As opposed to actually working, which is what I should be doing.

[Adrian]

ok, i agree with the fact that there was never a time that god didn't exist.

but, there was definitely a time that the universe didn't exist. that is scientifically proven.

so what was there before the beginning of the universe?

If there was never a time God didn't exist, there can never be a time the Universe didn't exist.

God is part of the universe, and without a universe he has nowhere to live.

Therefore, there was never a time the universe didn't exist, scientifically proven or not. Science can be wrong you know. The interpretation of data can be wrong. There can be more than one explanation for things, even if science can only come up with one explanation. There is no certainty in observation, because a human is not a perfect observer in the first place. I could go on...lol.

One of the main problems with society these days is that we put 100% faith in science and scientific proofs of things. We used to put 100% faith in religious leaders once. We were wrong to do that. And we still wrong today because science is definitely not perfect. We must never believe that it is.

[bennymacca]

Oh. It just evolved did it! Just radomly ended up being absolutely perfect.

what is it?

what is before the universe?

Something can't just "evolve" into a lemon out of nothing. There must be a starting point.

of course there is a starting point. the starting point was bacteria, that evolved into things more complex like viruses, that evolved into bigger things etc etc.

so the answer is, a lemon tree evolved from a tree that was slightly less good at being a lemon tree. and back down the line it goes.

similarly, we evolved from something like a chimp etc etc.

[Adrian]

also, welcome to the forum adrian. you have certainly jumped in head first!

Cheers benny the cunt.

Head first is the only way to do it!!

[bennymacca]

If there was never a time God didn't exist, there can never be a time the Universe didn't exist.

God is part of the universe, and without a universe he has nowhere to live.

Therefore, there was never a time the universe didn't exist, scientifically proven or not. Science can be wrong you know. The interpretation of data can be wrong. There can be more than one explanation for things, even if science can only come up with one explanation. There is no certainty in observation, because a human is not a perfect observer in the first place. I could go on...lol.

One of the main problems with society these days is that we put 100% faith in science and scientific proofs of things. We used to put 100% faith in religious leaders once. We were wrong to do that. And we still wrong today because science is definitely not perfect. We must never believe that it is.

ok, you are losing me a bit on this one.

i am not sure of your scientific background, but the science is pretty good on this matter. well right up until a fraction of a second after the big bang anyway.

science is definitely not perfect. but what you are saying shows a lack of understanding in scientific principles.

not having a go or anything, but i am curios, have you studied any sort of science at all?

[Adrian]

what is before the universe?

There was no "before".

of course there is a starting point. the starting point was bacteria, that evolved into things more complex like viruses, that evolved into bigger things etc etc.

so the answer is, a lemon tree evolved from a tree that was slightly less good at being a lemon tree. and back down the line it goes.

similarly, we evolved from something like a chimp etc etc.

old man Swanky, someone else is toeing the Company line too! I hope you pull them up as well.

Yes, but where did the bacteria come from? Did it just "appear" out of nowhere? Even if you do believe in the entire doctrine, you can only go back so far until to reach a point where something must've come from nothing.

And since this is obviously impossible, I don't believe the concept stacks up.

[Adrian]

ok, you are losing me a bit on this one.

i am not sure of your scientific background, but the science is pretty good on this matter. well right up until a fraction of a second after the big bang anyway.

That half second is ample time for God to make everything. He's a fast worker.

Don't forget, we only think it's half a second, because that's our interpretation, comprehension, and measurement. It doesn't make it true, just because we observe it. All it means is that we can't know any better, because our intelligence is limited.

I believe in the fundamental patheticness of humanity. I don't think we're clever. My ego can cope with accepting this.

science is definitely not perfect. but what you are saying shows a lack of understanding in scientific principles.

not having a go or anything, but i am curios, have you studied any sort of science at all?

Not really. Only Chemistry, Biology and Physics really. Only high school level though, not Uni level or anything.

My knowledge of science only makes me believe that there must be a point of creation. Too many amazing things for it to just be random.

[muzzington]

Damn Adrian, you really are towing the company line mate!
Nice work.

LOL. As opposed to actually working, which is what I should be doing.

That's the case for all of us I think, except I combine this and Facebook scrabble.

Stop distracting benny the cunt and let him go take his turns.

[Swanky]

old man Swanky, someone else is toeing the Company line too! I hope you pull them up as well.

Yes, but where did the bacteria come from? Did it just "appear" out of nowhere? Even if you do believe in the entire doctrine, you can only go back so far until to reach a point where something must've come from nothing.

And since this is obviously impossible, I don't believe the concept stacks up.

I wasn't pulling you in mate, just having a small jibe

As far your statement about bacteria, "did it just appear out of nowhere" and "ou can only go back so far until to reach a point where something must've come from nothing", you say that can't be possible for bacteria, but some how God can just exists, come form nothing, always been there. These statements intrigue me, but let me say again, I am certainly not having a go at you, I am just asking questions as I'm genuinely interested in peoples trains of thought.

[bennymacca]

That half second is ample time for God to make everything. He's a fast worker.

you misenterpreted this.

what i meant was, the theory of the creation of the universe, starting at the big bang and continuing is relatively well understood. there are slight complications, such as dark matter, and a theory of quantum gravity that we dont yet know about. the half second i was referring to was where the standard model of physics breaks down. thats not the point though.

secondly the universe DID start at the big bang. there is a definite creation point to of the universe. the universe hasn't always been there.

BUT a valid question to ask is what caused the big bang to occur. why did it occur? these are questions that cannot be answered by science, and personally, this is where i think a god maybe present. although i still haven't made up my mind on this.

I believe in the fundamental patheticness of humanity. I don't think we're clever. My ego can cope with accepting this.

yes we are pathetic, but we are damn clever, just ask me!

My knowledge of science only makes me believe that there must be a point of creation. Too many amazing things for it to just be random.

you are right, but you are talking about philosophy, not science. there is a very subtle difference. science tells us about evolution, the formation of the planets, etc, i.e the how. but doesn't tell us anything about the why