Joe Cada doco - looks good.

[AceLosesKing]

So Sauot's 3b shove with 99 for 45bb is bad, yet Cada's 4b shove with 22 for 40bb (or thereabouts, someone may need to correct me here) is fine?

[AJG]

Not at all, I said 'WTF?' to both of them and Cada's 33 shove...
Just wondering why Cada seemed to be the only player derided for some funky moves when 1/2 the table was making them. I also mentioned Moon's call of Ivey's push with AQ... very funky! Akenhead pulled a few suckouts to.

I can only hope they thought they might induce folds by such moves (the PP shoves)

Seemed to me the main reason for Cada to get pulled up with no mention of any other players, is that he took it down is all...

[AceLosesKing]

And the shove with deuces, yeah u gotta ask WTF, but again, he played it like the online HU player he is. Had Saout had KTs or somethin and folded after his 3bet, everyone would be sayin Cada is a hero to get the fold with only deuces, gutsy. But as it was a suckout, he's considered an idiot.

I can't imagine he put Saout on a higher pair 3 handed there. Sure he got very lucky, but was the play really that bad? Again he probably playing for the fold preflop... But yeah, playing your tournament life on a flip is dodgy... Although he did have fold equity on his side...

Like WTF is Saout doing jamming 46BB on pocket 8s over Cada's raise? Seems obv he hoping for a fold, but... I mean if you think you are up against AK/AQ or any big Ace (even 2 paint cards), then 88 is really not much better than 22 is it?

[AJG]

Thanks for quoting some of the phrases I was refering to when I said 1/2 THE TABLE WAS PLAYING FUNKY...

Bear in mind I am posting this after all the 'Cada is an idiot' - "You'll see when u watch the FT" posts. Hence the comment about: is 88 really that much better the deuces if you think you up against a big ace???
Again I ask why single Cada out?

And yeah, had Saout had a hand that he would fold to Cada's shove with 22, you dont think all the comentators and alot of spectators wouldnt be saying things like "Strong aggresive play from Cada to induce the fold there".... Of course they would.
But as he ran into 88 and flops a set some people see fit to deride him for this. Had he called a shove thats completely different... Also, surely Saout couldnt realistically think his 88 was anything more than a flip? HE was also lucky (preflop) that Cada shoved on deuces...

Let me ask you, had he made the same move with pocket 7s what would be your opinion of that hand?

Spoiler:

cos against 88 there is negligible difference in equity between 77 and 22, and against AKs/AKo the deuces are only 2% down from the 7s... but still ahead.

I think the main thing that made the tiny PP shoves so funky was that the whole FT was pretty much a jam-fest, and a lot of them getting calls.

[AJG]

So just to make clear what I have said in EVERY post since I watched the final table:

Why single out Cada as the bad 'suckout' player?

Other than he shipped the ME...

[JMACK007]

Is it just me, or are 22 and 77 EXACTLY the same against AK???

what do you mean 2% down???

*EDIT - infact the 22 is BETTER than the 77, because if your opponent hits an Ace, you can have more outs than the 7s to still win.....

[AceLosesKing]

I never singled out Cada.

[AJG]

Direct from pokerstove:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 45.016% 44.84% 00.18% 55276056 222444.00 { AKo }
Hand 1: 54.984% 54.80% 00.18% 67564944 222444.00 { 77 }


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.351% 47.04% 00.31% 57996648 380250.00 { AKo }
Hand 1: 52.649% 52.34% 00.31% 64528740 380250.00 { 22 }

And pretty much the same if you include AKs

Edit: JMACK- as ALK mentioned in another thread, 7s being closer to the middle of the deck have cards on either side to draw to a straight, thats why 22 has slighly less equity... But hey we are talking a mere 2% dif.
7s have a range of 4 either side of them to hit a straight, 2s only 1 below and 4 above, and in this case only 3/4 Aces. ANd if an Ace falls the 7s can still make a straight to, albeit with 1 less board card.

[AJG]

I never singled out Cada.

Ok, fair enough, I got that impression when you answered "You'll see'" when I asked benny the cunt why he hated him...

[bennymacca]

i am serious AJG, i have just reread the whole thread, and not once does anyone even mention cada, except for you, and me at the start when i said i dont like him. i didn't even say why

somehow you assume we are all cada bashing.

its really weird.

Ok, fair enough, I got that impression when you answered "You'll see'" when I asked benny the cunt why he hated him...

once again, you have assumed that i "hate" him

why do you feel the need to polarise everyone's views on it, and defend something to the death?

i just thought he was a bit boring. nothing to do with his poker at all. he is probably a great guy, but from the WSOP and now the above footage that i have seen, i just dont think he comes across as being that engaging

as far as documentaries go, something like 2m2mm was heaps better.


seriously, go take a cold shower or something