One For The Omaholics

[bennymacca]

Sorry to sound like a novice here but....

What is a broadway straight?

Ten to Ace straight

[Brett Kay]

I put opponent on the same hand as myself (broadway), however he may have a flush/house redraw

How do you put him on such a specific hand?

I think you need to show aggression before you get cards that will frighten the life out of you.

Not 'stacking off 400bb' aggression - but bet flop. If re-raised call and check/call if no scare cards (spades or board pairers) all the way.

Brett's strategy/advice is sound, or you could just show no aggression and lose/win/chop depending on the turn n river.

This is a fundamental element in omaha - so often you flop nuts then get rolled later on. Whatever you decide to do - it should become near-automatic as you face these situations time and time again. Try and take the indecisiveness out of it and put your plan to the test.

I still wonder how you put him on such a hand - i think your final strategy needs to consider that he can have different holdings too.

Following your logic.
Pre Flop 2bb
Flop Pot, re pot call. = 16bb
Turn Check, Pot, Call, 48bb
River Check Pot Call = 144bb

Now if you take that line after flopping straight on a flop you become a lot easier to exploit later on.
The third spade falls, or the board pairs. Are you going to stick around or are you going to fold?

[Tom Cerny]

In regards to putting someone on a hand i have played over a hundred sessions with villian and know him pretty well. I believe the action went as follows:

Flop: He opens pot, i repot (not the optimum move i now understand) and he repots me. I know that he knows that i have the nuts or i wouldnt be repotting (Flop 10 J Q-not messing with that) and the fact he came over the top suggested he wasnt worried about the nuts. I dont believe he wouldve taken that action with a dry flush draw or set, and he would easily fold K9xx / 89xx

Thanks for the advice
I have some things to think about

[gmatical]

Following your logic.
Pre Flop 2bb
Flop Pot, re pot call. = 16bb
Turn Check, Pot, Call, 48bb
River Check Pot Call = 144bb

Now if you take that line after flopping straight on a flop you become a lot easier to exploit later on.
The third spade falls, or the board pairs. Are you going to stick around or are you going to fold?

I fold to the dangercards - so the 144bb is never in danger unless I am pretty sure my hand remains good - and at worst we are chopping.
I just like the idea of having a go at it, only huge draws beat us (sorry... have a chance at beating us)

I thought about it some more and I would actually fold to the repot on the flop especially considering Tom's further info suggesting that we are spot on with our read. If the read is true - folding to the re-pot is the only option i s'pose. Not much use fighting for a chop at best.

[Brett Kay]

Following your logic.
Pre Flop 2bb
Flop Pot, re pot call. = 16bb
Turn Check, Pot, Call, 48bb
River Check Pot Call = 144bb

Now if you take that line after flopping straight on a flop you become a lot easier to exploit later on.
The third spade falls, or the board pairs. Are you going to stick around or are you going to fold?

I fold to the dangercards - so the 144bb is never in danger unless I am pretty sure my hand remains good - and at worst we are chopping.
I just like the idea of having a go at it, only huge draws beat us (sorry... have a chance at beating us)

I thought about it some more and I would actually fold to the repot on the flop especially considering Tom's further info suggesting that we are spot on with our read. If the read is true - folding to the re-pot is the only option i s'pose. Not much use fighting for a chop at best.

So you are going to fold the nuts, to someone who has the nuts also but with better redraws. This is where you need to learn pot control.

Its like folding the nut flush because he has a set and can redraw to the full house. You want to keep them in, get more money out of them from their draw. But not to make you stack yourself before you get pot comitted.

There are always a lot of coin flips when it comes to the flops. Hence why the check is the safest option, because he loses one redraw, and if he doesn't get his card the odds skew into your favour. So check/call flop, evaluate turn and river.

Keep the pot small until you have the river nuts. You might only get 30-50bb out of him, but your not putting yourself out of the hand because he has better redraws.

[gmatical]

So you are going to fold the nuts, to someone who has the nuts also but with better redraws. This is where you need to learn pot control.

Of course we fold, why control a pot you can only half win? Our x-ray vision would lead us to this decision and this decision alone.

Its like folding the nut flush because he has a set and can redraw to the full house.

No it is not, we are discussing actions when holding the same nut hand - not flushes vs trips. Sweating cards to scoop a pot is alot different to avoiding the same hand that is freerolling with 2 cards to come.

There are always a lot of coin flips when it comes to the flops. Hence why the check is the safest option, because he loses one redraw, and if he doesn't get his card the odds skew into your favour. So check/call flop, evaluate turn and river.

Keep the pot small until you have the river nuts. You might only get 30-50bb out of him, but your not putting yourself out of the hand because he has better redraws.

Of course the check is the safest play, but we never get money out of him based on the hand discussed.

I see the benefits you illustrate in keeping it small until you have the river nuts, but sometimes it is our aggression that forces folds in drawing hands that dont want to pay the large cost of the turn pot that becomes costly by betting flops.

[AceLosesKing]

I don't understand the last two pages at ALL.

[Brett Kay]

I don't understand the last two pages at ALL.

Ask a question and learn from the response.

Where do we need to start?

[bennymacca]

No it is not, we are discussing actions when holding the same nut hand - not flushes vs trips. Sweating cards to scoop a pot is alot different to avoiding the same hand that is freerolling with 2 cards to come.

what?


i think this is a pretty clear fold on the flop, a massive one, but a fold.

i very much doubt someone would 3bet on the flop here without the nuts, or at the VERY least some sort of combo draw to the house and/or flush

so at teh very best, you are up against a set_flush draw, and you are 40% to win.

at worst, he also has the nuts and is freerolling for the flush or house, and you are crushed.

[gmatical]

No it is not, we are discussing actions when holding the same nut hand - not flushes vs trips. Sweating cards to scoop a pot is alot different to avoiding the same hand that is freerolling with 2 cards to come.

what?


i think this is a pretty clear fold on the flop, a massive one, but a fold.

i very much doubt someone would 3bet on the flop here without the nuts, or at the VERY least some sort of combo draw to the house and/or flush

so at teh very best, you are up against a set_flush draw, and you are 40% to win.

at worst, he also has the nuts and is freerolling for the flush or house, and you are crushed.

Yes, what you have said is correct.

Placing it under my quote makes it a nice addition to the 2 pages of confusion